Guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Funny, I was about to ask "if mia nois are prostitutes", but this works as well... Orandanodes, does the 'Thai scene' that you refer to exclude massage parlours and the apparently rather bleak brothels? My assumption is that BG is really supposed to read "prostitute". Orandanodes' original post seemed to hint at that BGs (hostesses, etc.) in the Thai scene might not be considered prostitutes, even if they have sex with men for monetary compensation and need to be barfined if taken out of the establishment. Is this the case? >Girls from the lower levels of Thai Society can benfit greatly from becoming a mia noi to a wel-to-do Thai. >If she can become a mia noi, her (and her family's) financial benefits can be beyond belief. Is it only money or also a means of upwards social mobility? Apparently (per GTG &al) Thais consider prostitutes to be very low on the social ladder, even lower than poor peasant girls. Does becoming mia noi remove the stain of being a prostitute and elevate your status (a bit) above that of a peasant? The reason I'm asking is that I cannot see a difference between a mia noi and a mistress in the European style. (You pay the rent, you pay this and that, ...) In the West mistresses are clearly not regarded as prostitutes. However, how many Western men would pick a prostitute as their mistress; as far as I can tell, as few as would marry one. >Girls not beautiful in the eyes of the well-to-do Thais or other Asians (too dark skinned, over 23 or so), or those that >are otherwise unacceptable in that scene (having kids, divorced) enter the farang scene if that's their choice. Is this what happens to the girls who start in the Thai scene, but do not make the grade and become mia nois? Or do they shy away from sinking so low? I cannot recall ever meeting BGs or seeing second-hand information about girls who had switched from the Thai scene to the farang one... Wagner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Is it only money or also a means of upwards social mobility? Apparently (per GTG &al) Thais consider prostitutes to be very low on the social ladder, even lower than poor peasant girls. Does becoming mia noi remove the stain of being a prostitute and elevate your status (a bit) above that of a peasant ---------------------------------- It is obvious that girls who work as Bgs, and more than a few mia nois know thai middle class society functionning is out of their realm, and usually they may be in these settings in the big city, but with the home/village in their minds, not "thai society" at large. This is where they belong, And people over there may smirk a bit behind their back, but usually it will be from envy more than looking down, as indeed, their status and the one of their family in the village will raise with the affluence they bring. If they bring it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 European visitors to Siam in the 16th and 17th century commented on the ready availability of ?rental wives ------------------------------ First let me say, i love when we go beyond the usual trappings of the sex scene. It is just more interesting and provide an outfit to show Thailand is more for many of us that something that showed up on the sex map 25, 30 odd years ago. What you say is true, but we have to see that this was seen thru the european eyes. Let's leave alone the more brothel/street prostitution which has always existed anywhere, from Babylon to New York. the expression "rental wives" exactly means that. The culture of mia nois was then part of the social fabric, and it could be that the europeans quiclky labeled it as prostitution, because they may have compared it to the simple providing of sex in their own society. Not quite getting the arcane ways the society worked vis a vis such relationships. I have just read a study where it shows that the importance of europeans in the making of the scene was already visible, parallel to the growing of trade between Asia and Europe, as well as influencing the metamorphosis of "rental wives" into a less code-ridden behaviour, more into a simpler proposition of company for money. Because they were not on the whole LT visitors or not the least ineterested in mingling with the local broad-chasers in the less than lofty local brothels, some kind of settings "just for them" started to crop up, ending up 200 years on with places like the pong, Suk and Pattaya, the "showcase"! That's for a start on the subject..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 had a similar discussion with a girl from a massage parlor... she came to BKK to work in the market and live with her cousin. Soon a friend told her about how much $$ she made at massage. Since this girl is"very sexy" (her words, but I agree) she also went to be a massage girl. Now after almost 2 years she is saving money for: 1) send to family (she told them she wins at lottery) 2) buy a pick-up truck 3) have enough $$ to open a clothes store in her home town. I wonder if she is "dreaming" or if this will become her reality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Very few options for them to break the poverty cycle that so many of them live in. Money is the only way out and it takes a lot to get out. Sad but true. ------------------------------ This is the logic as it happens today, but it still misses why they can do that, why it mushroomed unquestionned, why it is made so easy, so normal? Why we farangs rationalize it so well while we'd have concurred in our own societies that "enough is enough" long ago. Not taking a moral stand, just trying to get at the roots of the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Sure money is the big one. But having discussed this with a number of girls over the years it's clear that many want to meet and marry a man ( accepted that this is linked with financial security ). Also may girls like the ability to pick and choose partners ( ie they like sex ) away from the controlling and discriminatory eyes of the family. In reply to my question one girl simply said "freedom". Chok dii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 well she then started of by working in a restaurent, but soon found out the money & work load was better at a bar beer so there she is now for th 3rd year. --------------------------- perfect example. the main being she took it on her own to decide what to do. On the positive side, social history of SEA shows that women have always be more autonomous there. While some were certainly bound to a very limited family or married life, there are many signs that others had a lot more leeway in how they went about their day and their business. It was defintely quite ok for women to trade and enter the market place. Since reading about that, and thinking about my TGFs, i must say I find their behaviour and decisions concerning entering the sex scene, while keeping more than a modicum of pride, self-esteem and strong-headedness, relating to that kind of autonomy in making a personal decision. To which we can add more coercive reasons (coercive socially and indirectly) like dutiful daughterhood to the parents. It's a mixed bag of different pointers we talk about here. I think most girls in the scene are not sold or forced to do it, but as this would not explain why they would take up a job that society frowns about, I think there is some truth to their being able to make a decision of their own, more concerned about the pragmatism of it than the morals/negatives of it, whatever they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 about numbers, last post was my 3000th.... It's beautiful up there, I can see all of Thailand on a clear day!!!!!! PS: wtach out behind me, DB, I just dropped my pick............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgianBoy Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 P127, What is that saying again ????? Oh yes !!! The higher the climb, the lower the fall...... that goes in French as well with traduction on simple request..... Cheers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 3, 2002 Report Share Posted August 3, 2002 Quote "GTG and some of the others really look down on the farang BG-scene, but tend to forget that its basically an extension of the traditional Thai nitelife scene and a good place for those girls unable to be succesful in the Thai scene to make money and perhaps find someone that will support them and their families" That's actually crap. Statistics show there are just as many prostitutes in Australia per head of population as there are in Thailand. Just like the girls in the west, it's all about money / choice. There's plenty of other jobs to do. 99% of other Thai women manage to support themselves and their familes without resorting to prostitution. Like in the west, it's a personal choice and good luck to them if that's their choice. It's their body / life and they can do as they want. However, to say their is no option, it's cultural etc is garbage. re the mia noi to a rich man etc...that goes on everywhere. Go to any big firm in the west and you'll always find guys in their 40's with young girls hanging off them...because they like the fact the guy can take them to Fiji / Bali for a holiday...take her out in his new BMW...while the guy her own age has hardly a cent to his name. It's wrong to stereotype Thai's for things that happen everywhere. Quote "In the higher levels of Thai Society (there we go again), marriages are often arranged. Its a business deal bringing two families closer together. " Have you ever seen the right wing Christians in action! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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