On Behalf Of the Rural Farang.

[KimDidMeGood]

^But it was all legal due process yadda, yadda!

[soongmak]

TH,

 

Actually, forget my last post. I also read your reply to Gaddie on the 'fair analasys' thread on what I thought was a fair summary of the current political situation. Did you ever post such a summary that shows that Gadfly and I are wrong of our assesment of the current situation? You don't have to repost it, only a link will do.

 

If I read your and FM's posts, I just don't find any concern for the current lack of democracy in Thailand. Maybe I am wrong though. I just can't understand how you and FM have come to your current opinion if you favour democracy. I really don't. But if there's something to learn from you, I am certain willing to pick it up.

 

Cheers!

[Pom Michael]

Soongmak - I guess that is the main difference of opinion that some of have - so facts on either side won't change.

 

I do NOT believe that there is a lack of democracy at all in Thailand over the last two years.

 

I was very concerned about the way Thaksin was trampling on democracy from about year 2004 - 2006.

 

 

[ThaiHome]

Yes' date=' I'm afraid you do. I will make it simple. Give me the name of [b']one[/b] Member of Parliament that was not elected.

 

If you can do that, I might go along with your assertion that their votes don's count.

 

Don't take things only literally. That is tiresome and beneath someone who is obviously not stupid. The fact that Samak was ejected and the coalition partners of the PPP were strongarmed by the army into forming a coalition with the democrats without running new elections make that their votes effectively don't count.

 

There is no evidence that the coalition partners were strong armed. There is no doubt that Anupong was intrumental in getting the partners together. At worst, you could call him the "coalition formation manager". There was no need to strong arm. Both Newin and Banharn were more then happy to ditch the TRT/PPP/PTP and hookup with the Democrats. They were well rewarded and continue to support the current goverment.

The upcoming no-confidence vote will be a perfect time for any coalition member that felt "strong-armed" to defect. Let's see what happens.

TH

 

[soongmak]

Really? That just amazes me. There has been a coup, a new draft of the constitution supervised by the leaders of the coup, and a subsequent government overthrown for minor infractions. The ejection of Samak was like cutting off a leg as a cure for a blister on the foot.

 

I did hold the same fears during the Thaksin years as you did, as he was and is obviously bad for democracy. His tendency to line his pockets, control the media and appoint cronies everywhere was beyond bad. But people tend to forget about that, especially because of what the army did since then was effectively worse, because they committed their offences against democracy without a democratic mandate.

 

This is definitely a case of the cure being worse than the disease.

[bust]

Had an interesting conversation with a thai here today. Their view was Thailand has been a democracy since the '90's, but Thakky was the first politician to appeal directly to the the rural poor rather than just paying off the local village heads to get their votes. He promised them debt relief, cheap loans, better health care, which he delivered but that was not how the urban elite wanted their tax money spent.

 

Interestingly I was recently shown a Thaksin road project and a Abhisit road project in the same area. Huge difference. I guess for me it was a way of seeing why the rural are so pro Thakky

[soongmak]

I do NOT believe that there is a lack of democracy at all in Thailand over the last two years.

 

Actually, let me rephrase my last post. I am not only amazed, but I have to dismiss the above quote as ridiculous. You have to come up with something better than that. The fact that there is something wrong with democracy is beyond dispute.

 

Let me tell you why. The 2007 constitution makes sure that a majority of the senate are not chosen by the voters, they are appointed. Without the approval of the senate, no law can be passed. That makes it that the people who appoint the senators actually control the law making process in Thailand, and not the representatives of the voters. As long as this constitution is in effect, Thailand is no democracy. Not even the fact that the constitution was approved by a majority of the voters. Even the Nation, the newspaper who was one of the fiercest critics of Thaksin, acknowledged the fact that criticism of the constitution was forbidden (Link), therefore making it impossible for the Thai people to make an informed choice.

 

 

[Mekong]

He promised them debt relief, cheap loans, better health care, which he delivered but that was not how the urban elite wanted their tax money spent.

 

Interestingly I was recently shown a Thaksin road project and a Abhisit road project in the same area. Huge difference. I guess for me it was a way of seeing why the rural are so pro Thakky

 

And how the hell did Thaksin propose to finance his debt relief, cheap loans, better health care? He may have delivered in the short term but there were no long term financila policies in place to sustain such.

 

Urban elete is also total BULLSHIT, majoroty of Bangkokians and other Urban Thais are hard working TAX PAYERS, whereas many of the Rural Poor have not contributed a single satang to the state in all theur lives yet expect handouts.

 

And whilst we are onto the issue about tax, all you F**cking armchair critics gobbing off from afar who have also never contributed one single satang via taxation to the Thai ecconomy SHUT THE F**K UP Put your money where your mouth is or slide back under the slimey rock you come from.

 

[BelgianBoy]

And whilst we are onto the issue about tax, all you F**cking armchair critics gobbing off from afar who have also never contributed one single satang via taxation to the Thai ecconomy SHUT THE F**K UP Put your money where your mouth is or slide back under the slimey rock you come from.

Mekong,

 

Excuse me, but all of us who only visit pay 7 % VAT on anything we purchase in Thailand, hotels, restaurants, shopping, etc....

Granted not as much as local expats, but we contribute as well

 

BB

[Flashermac]

SM, I am a realist. I am certainly not anti-democracy, but I absolutely fail to see how the alternative to the present government would be any improvement. Have you seen who Puea Thai wants to replace Abhisit? CHALERM YUBAMRUNG - one of the most corrupt politicians in Thailand, Chalerm whose son got away with murder and had his dismissal from the army overturned by Samak even though desertion is an unpardonable offence.

 

You demand high standards of the current government, but apparently not of the opposition. That doesn't strike you as odd?