Arizona's Next Immigration Target: Children of Illegals

[Steve]

I'm no fan of social welfare. I saw it abused first hand from neighbors. We qualified for it (free lunch, etc) but were too proud. I would say I do see a need in some cases. The problem is its so big you have those that abuse it and don't need it along with the truly needy through no fault of their own in many cases.

 

That said, I'm also no fan of corporate welfare. Corporate welfare has been marketed to us by the government as 'incentives' to create jobs.

 

Being a small 'L' Libertarian, I'm ideologically against either in theory but could be persuaded to spend some on both. Nothing even remotely close to the amounts that are being spent nowadays.

 

I've always heard corporate welfare costs far more than social welfare.

 

This link is from a person who is biased against corporate welfare and they say its 10 times larger than social welfare.

http://community.comcast.net/t5/In-The-News/Corporate-Welfare-vs-Social-Welfare-which-costs-more/m-p/5171673

 

This link is dated http://www.sociology.vt.edu/course/socprobs/corporatewelfare.html

 

but even then, it provides some figures that one must conclude has grown and gotten wider.

An excerpt: II. Corporate Welfare Vs. “Social Welfareâ€Â

The figures reported above give us some basis for assessing how corporate welfare matches up with “social†welfareâ€â€programs for the needy, such as TANF, food stamps, and the likeâ€â€in terms of costs.

The nation's largest corporations and richest citizens receive more welfare money than our social welfare programs. In 1994, the United States spent $104.3 billion on corporate welfare, while spending only $14.4 billion on Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC; now TANF). If we add together recent federal monies spent on AFDC/TANF, food stamps and Medicaid, it comes to about $85 billion annually. The total cost of the corporate tax breaks and subsidies is hundreds of billions of dollars.

Federal aid to corporations and wealthy individuals include bailouts, export promotions, loans, loan guarantees, debt forgiveness, below cost sales, interest free financing and other benefits. Barrett and Steele (1998) estimate that in 1998 corporate welfare cost the federal government $125 billion a year (note: estimates often vary, as these depend on exactly what one counts as corporate welfare; you will read precise definitions and estimates when you access the Boston Globe link a bit later).

In general, social welfare programs account for a small amount of the national budget. AFDC [the program prior to TANF] is less than 1% of the federal budget and, on average, no more than 2% of each state's fund. (http://www.feminist.org/other/budget/welfare/welfare.htm)

 

Illegal immigration is a business issue as well as a border issue. The farming, restaurant and other businesses as well as many small businesses, individual (who in LA hasn't hired an illegal outside of Home Plus to help them move? What upper middle class home hasn't hired an illegal nanny?).

 

[Old Hippie]

I have never hired an illegal, never had the need...but the point is, doing nothing, as some here have suggested, is NOT an answer to the problem...as Flash pointed out, 10%+ of the Mexican population in NOW in the USA...how many more before the PC brigade will pull it's head out of it's ass and admit there "might just be a small problem looming...?"

 

I had an argument with some toss bags here, Americans if it matters, and believe me, it does, about Proposition 13 taxes, flat taxes etc...and they all seemed to think as long as they kept getting theirs, then everything was ok...assuming guys like me would be there to subsidize them...they think my life is a choice, I think theirs is, they have the advantage, I don't (tax wise)...everyone thinks it is ok for someone else to pay for everyone and everything...as long as it doesn't directly effect them...then, when they pull their heads out of their asses, and pop, they see it does effect them, then holy shit why didn't YOU/THEY do something sooner..?

[Flashermac]

I am still irritated by the census category of Hispanic. All other categories are racial, but this one is linguistic. WTF? A black Cuban, a Castillian Spaniard, a Mexican mestizo (Indian and white mix) and Guatemalan Indian are all lumped together because they speak (or their parents spoke) Spanish.

 

So why not a category of Anglo for English speakers of all races? It pisses me off to read that "white Americans" will soon be a minority, since this is based on counting Caucasian Spanish speakers as non-white! I remember one of my buddies in Vietnam (Mexican-American from Arizona) getting quite angry when a black Puerto Rican asked him what he thought "of those white guys". He said to me, "What the hell does he think I am?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Steve]

Pacific Islander is a broad category as well. A lot of whites of spanish origin 'pass' themselves as regular 'ol white cacucasion. They sometimes even anglicize their names. I worked with a guy once who was white of spanish (Spain) origin and became 'latin' when the company wanted to promote minorities into management.

 

Its a murky puddle when one is identifying themselves. Most Italians I grew up didn't consider themselves white, they are 'Italian' as if that was its own unique category.

 

As far as the immigration issue, I don't propose doing nothing as well. I think a two pronged approach should be tried. Actually try in earnest to protect the border as well as focus on the demand within the U.S., specifically with the businesses that hire them and start enforcing the laws already on the books.

[Bangkoktraveler]

I have never hired an illegal, never had the need...but the point is, doing nothing, as some here have suggested, is NOT an answer to the problem...as Flash pointed out, 10%+ of the Mexican population in NOW in the USA...how many more before the PC brigade will pull it's head out of it's ass and admit there "might just be a small problem looming...?"

 

I had an argument with some toss bags here, Americans if it matters, and believe me, it does, about Proposition 13 taxes, flat taxes etc...and they all seemed to think as long as they kept getting theirs, then everything was ok...assuming guys like me would be there to subsidize them...they think my life is a choice, I think theirs is, they have the advantage, I don't (tax wise)...everyone thinks it is ok for someone else to pay for everyone and everything...as long as it doesn't directly effect them...then, when they pull their heads out of their asses, and pop, they see it does effect them, then holy shit why didn't YOU/THEY do something sooner..?

 

 

[color:red]How much more do you wan t to pay in taxes?[/color]

 

From that answer will be how the illegal immigration problem will be handled.

 

[Flashermac]

Does Pacific Islander include everyone who lives in Hawaii? How about on Catalina? The Japanese? Taiwanese? Tasmanians?

 

 

[Old Hippie]

I have never hired an illegal' date=' never had the need...but the point is, doing nothing, as some here have suggested, is NOT an answer to the problem...as Flash pointed out, 10%+ of the Mexican population in NOW in the USA...how many more before the PC brigade will pull it's head out of it's ass and admit there "might just be a small problem looming...?"

 

I had an argument with some toss bags here, Americans if it matters, and believe me, it does, about Proposition 13 taxes, flat taxes etc...and they all seemed to think as long as they kept getting theirs, then everything was ok...assuming guys like me would be there to subsidize them...they think my life is a choice, I think theirs is, they have the advantage, I don't (tax wise)...everyone thinks it is ok for someone else to pay for everyone and everything...as long as it doesn't directly effect them...then, when they pull their heads out of their asses, and pop, they see it does effect them, then holy shit why didn't YOU/THEY do something sooner..?[/quote']

 

 

[color:red]How much more do you wan t to pay in taxes?[/color]

 

From that answer will be how the illegal immigration problem will be handled.

 

 

Well we either pay more in taxes to get rid of them and keep them out or if we follow your plan, we pay more in taxes to have more come here, and thus suck up even more social services for which they pay no taxes...either way, we pay, which is what you fail to understand. 10% of Mexico is here...when should we crack down? 20% 50%? why not just merge countries?

 

COuld you tell us what business you are in and how many of these people you hire?

[Central Scrutinizer]

BT,

 

Bullshit (said in a friendly manner, sir). Simple fix. Huge fines and jail time for those that are caught hiring illegals. Stop the jobs, stop the flow of illegals coming in. It is that fucking simple really. Same taxes paid to jail the employers instead of the illegals coming in to work for them, less actually once it was enforced and the employers saw the gov was actually serious about this shit.

 

It's not rocket science. It just takes the balls and the will to enforce the laws, and to increase the penalties for the people giving them the work they are sneaking over to make money from. It's all smoke and mirrors and PC political bullshit, from both major political parties. Get it done you pussies!

[TroyinEwa/Perv]

They'd have to throw themselves in jail then and their friends for hiring illegals. I love the idea but it won't fly.

[Steve]

I would imagine Hawaiians should be included but aren't I think. As I said, its a murky issue. I grew up with a lot of Puerto Ricans and many of the black ones never considered themselves the same as black americans. They were latino. Pure and simple. Same with black Cubans and Dominicanos (Dominican Republican). Part of it was it was not a good thing to identify yourself with black americans because if you do you also accept the social stigma. West Indian blacks (Jamaicans, Trinidadians) were the same as well. They were not 'black' they were West Indian or Jamaican or whatever.