cardinalblue Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Zorro, I think lying goes both ways with falangs and BGs. There are falangs who lie outright like about their marriage, etc. Then there are falangs who make promises to girls but then reality sets in when they return home. What is it about why guys who lose all sense of common sense and responsibility when over here? I contrinute it to the disneyland environment and candy store mentality that exists here. Since the thread is about falangs lying i will not comment on BGs and lying but it deserve a different thread. There is a book called "Wondering into Thai Culture" that does a good job explaining moral principles, honesty, sincerity, smiling, fear of offending, etc. By understanding how the thai culture deals with these concepts, it helped me better understand lying and its place and its importance in thai society...... While honesty is talked about about as a value in the thai culture, first of all it is not practiced at our level and second I really question whether it really is a high moral value/vitue and actually believed by the Thai people that it is..... Cardinalblue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Says Fiery Jack: Believe it or not, if you make a promise to a BG, her first strategy, her Plan A, is to BELIEVE that promise. OK, she'll fall back on Plan B pretty quickly ? pick herself up, dust herself off and start all over again ? but that's not because she's shallow or calculating or ungentle, just that she's known so many "promises" broken in the past. She's now used to it, and the fact that BGs are used to liars means we owe it to them to cut them some slack if some of them sometimes lie or exaggerate the truth. And I will also add, when I have said I will come back that night or the next night, the girl has ALWAYS been there waiting. Even when I know they have turned down others advances. And they always greet you like the long lost friend upon arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun_Kong Posted May 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Says Fiery Jack: Yes? Hello? How much do you want this time? :: ....Oh. Ooops. Sorry. Just read the topic title, "Lying Farang", and thought it was a Private Mail to myself from my ex-wife. jack :grinyes: FJ- I'm sure my co-workers must wonder what the hell I'm doing when I'm reading your posts in the office and can't stifle my laughter! ================================== On a more serious note: I too was moved by Rovineye's tales, as well as the others in this thread. I've not been on this board all that long, but, given that, I've rarely read posts of such compassion and humanity for the ladies, especially from some of the guys who are sometimes just a little bit cynical I'm actually surprised by the outpouring of testimonials to the girls' honesty! Nice to see this. Almost seems to be some contradictions to other things I've read- here we have girls crying hours after the fact, other girls faithfully waiting for their guy to show up, even eschewing the offers of others! Helps me to reflect more objectively on some of the relationships that I've had, both in TL and at home and of some of the hurt that I may have inadvertently left in my wake. I'd have to agree with all those who say it goes both ways. I think that there is a kind of negative synergy, where deceits can reverberate back and forth, increasing more with each echo. I'm sure that this energy can be passed on to newbies, both farang, through the boards, and working girls, through their network, and serve to pre-harden the attitude of all the players. Many years ago, a western Buddhist friend of mine gave me this advice: "Keep an open mind, but don't let your brains fall out". Seems appropriate here. I've gotta lotta thoughts on this, but work calls in 7 hours and it's getting too late for coherency! :sleeping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 "Nothing at all even close to my personal experiences. I guess if I had to break it down on a percentage basis possibly 1% of the women I have encountered on a P4P basis have tried to "hustle" me in the sense of seeking renumeration in the form of extras outside of the cash paid (ie. buy me cell phone, bracelet, extra baht for cab above the standard rate, etc). They have not done so with lies but actually by asking me to do it for them. Maybe you mean "hustle" when a girl quotes you a higher rate for her services than what she would actually be satisfied with (ie. 3000bt LT but would accept 1500bt)." I think you have missed the point. You are being softened up when this jai dee business comes up. It is subtle. Because you want to be liked and you know the girls prefer a jai dee man you are more likely to buy drinks and presents for the girls whether you really wanted to or not. The hustle is planting the seed in the mind of the punter. Remember this is the P4P scene. Lying is part of the game and subtle psychological games are also part of it. Most of the girls working the bars are married or have boyriends and/or girlfriends. How many times will they admit it to customers? As i said before the lies take place on both sides as the nature of the transaction favours the illusion. Nothing wrong with that as long as realise what is going on then you can go ahead and enjoy yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Says Zorro: I think you have missed the point. You are being softened up when this jai dee business comes up. It is subtle. Because you want to be liked and you know the girls prefer a jai dee man you are more likely to buy drinks and presents for the girls whether you really wanted to or not. The hustle is planting the seed in the mind of the punter. Remember this is the P4P scene. Lying is part of the game and subtle psychological games are also part of it. Most of the girls working the bars are married or have boyriends and/or girlfriends. How many times will they admit it to customers? As i said before the lies take place on both sides as the nature of the transaction favours the illusion. Nothing wrong with that as long as realise what is going on then you can go ahead and enjoy yourself. Nah, I didn't miss your point. I just pointed out to you that I don't have those experiences that you mention. I also don't think that the girls in the scene are as cold and calculating as you make them out to be with your reference to the "jai dee hustle". I think you give them way to much credit for the alluded to machinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pescator Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Hi naiv, Well, we`ve all been there I guess. I recall some years back when I was paying a fee at the airport for having overstayed my visa. There was this british guy in the same line who had also overstayed his visa. He was argueing with the immigration officer that he was plain out of cash and had no plastic. The immigration officer didn`t give a crap and just said: Then you not go! The guy was whining and pleading and I almost felt sorry for him to a degree that I was about to offer him the lousy 400 baht for the fine. As of luck I didn`t do it, because all of a sudden the guy "found" a 100 dollar bill in his wallet. Geez, what a sorry fucker! Cheers Hua Nguu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pescator Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Most of the girls working the bars are married or have boyriends and/or girlfriends.How many times will they admit it to customers? Hi Zorro, They wouldn`t, but I believe your assumption is wrong. In my experience it is the other way around. Most are not married etc. I lived for 6 months in a BG street in Patong, (my GF owned a bar) and I got to know a lot of them quite well not just the ones working in my GF`s bar. There were indeed a few with thai guys but they were definitely a minority. Cheers Hua Nguu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatPhak Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 rovineye, Read your reply with interest. I too was in a relationship with a TG and would step out once a week or so only to be racked with guilt about it. My TG understood my activities, but asked me to limit them, not go LT and not repeat the same lady. Being the nice guy that I am, I did that at the time. :: Now that I am single, I go to the same ladies quite often as I tend to be very selective about who I go with, and almost always go LT. I have had many conversations with these girls about cheating, all have said they expect their BG or husband to cheat, but the good man lies to her about it, never lets her find out, puts her first and always uses a condom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 Your survey is limited to Patong and not really a good basis for judgement. Phukett is a different scene from Bangkok and Pattaya Also how do you know what they are saying is the truth? You should read some of the reports from farangs marrying women who are already married to Thai guys or who find out they have boyfriends and yes often girl friends or who have other farang boyfriends sending money. It is very common. Once you start believing the stories the girls are peddling you are in real danger. Every guy reckons the same thing she wouldn't lie to me blah blah ....wrong That is not to say that there are not some nice girls in the scene but really the odds of finding one are too small for the risks involved. Believe at your own peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 >Your survey is limited to Patong and not really a good basis for judgement. Phukett is a different scene from Bangkok and Pattaya Also how do you know what they are saying is the truth? You should read some of the reports from farangs marrying women who are already married to Thai guys or who find out they have boyfriends and yes often girl friends or who have other farang boyfriends sending money. Well, do you have a better source for your post other than reading around? I would rather trust HuaNguu. Asked to elaborate, I am sure he would come up with different stratums of bgs and percentages within each of them. I don't agree with HuaNguu that general number of "coupled" bgs are minority (say, 5-10%) neither with you that "most" of them have husbands/tbfs (say, 80%+). My own observation ranges from 30-60%. Some leave their Thai man for good, some get connected, it oscilates. Those willing to marry and live aborad, they may be in that "minority". That's where I think we get 5% or less. (Edited for clarification: IMO, out of 100 girls willing to rellocate, 5% if that may have a Thai husband expecting their support) Stunners going ST only are most likely to have someone. (Based on talks with 27 bgs, working all 3 areas in BKK and their conversations about other girls in their bars. Sorry, offical statistics in Thai does not cover things more important than this.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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