jasmine Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Hi, It was a part of unifying Thailand (Siam then). It was done also in the North so the British could claim somw parts of the North. Now, to be fair, when ones form a nation, ones must have a common means to communicate, with a common language intact, then people can speak, write or read any dialect they want. From what I have read so far, Isaan still has some written langauges and a few dialects are still used. [color:"red"] Basically force subsequent generations to speak and identify themselves as Thai. [/color] I don't understand what you are trying to say here, of course they are supposed to identify themselves as Thais, they (ancestors) have chosen to stay in Thailand. Perhaps I missed your point :: If they want to be Loatians, it is not really that difficult. Jasmine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whosyourdaddy Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 See my notes on it to LHL. Just stating the "facts" from a person who I respect for his knowledge on the subject, much more than someone who has spent a few weeks in some village. I never gave my view on the subject other than I am dissappointed that the goverment can not come up with a solution and stick with it. They are just keeping 100,000s of people in limbo.. So get off my back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit_of_town_hall Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 In a way language is just like anything else. Languages which are good will survive and prosper whereas language which arent so good such as welsh and Gaelic will fade out. It pisses me off that welsh and Gaelic are hugely subsidised in my country. What they are doing in Wales now is similar to what Pol Pot did in Cambodia as far as Language is concerned... All Welsh children are forced to learn welsh up to 16 years old, what do they do, all forget after a year or two, wouldnt they be better learning car maintenence.... That the country united and learnt Thai is good, disunity is bad for a country. STH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Wow, This got more attention than I really thought it would. Some of the comments got my pressure up for a bit, but LHL has responded as I would in each account.Esp in regard to loyalty to the King and family. True, there are many many cultural differences (Lisu do not wai etc), but ins't that true of regional differences everywhere? As far as being Thai by ancestry, my GF is 3rd generation Thai born. At what point is she considered Thai? But let me say, she does have all papers and rights associated with Thai citizenship. Others are not so lucky. We must also remember that there are many different hilltribes also. They are very different in and of themselves. Some may not recognize the Thia flag and rule etc? I do not know. Like LHL, my experience is only with the Lisu. Drugs. This is such a complicated issue. The Lisu live high up and for generations they cultivated poppies. They were not (for the most part) users of the opium, it was the cash crop. In recent history, the practice became illegal, and pretty much stamped out. The US gave huge sums of money to eradicate the drug cultivation. How much of this ever got to the villages for alternative crops, education, and assistance during the transformation? You don't need me to answer that. But the network existed and was (is) being used to distribute drugs from outside. Sad but true. Not unique however. The problem is more widespread than hilltribe mules. The Royal projects have stepped in and done much good in many areas. Alternative crops, water projects, handicraft markets etc. Eucational opportunites are better also. The free boarding schools for hilltribe kids give opportunities that would not be available otherwise. If you want to see some real racism, talk to hilltribe folks about other hill tribes! My GF can certainly go on and on about other tribes. Loves to vist the other villages tho. Lisu also believe all hilltribes came from a common mother and father. Only the Akah branch went awry because the son of that family married a monkey. She also talks about a village (can't remember which tribe) that the had to walk around when taking the 6 hour hike to market. Parents wouldn't let them pass thru the village because that tribe would be having sex in the middle of the trail and eveywhere else available , and in public. Their clothes were made to eailsy allow access several times a day with anyone. I guess my only points here are that 1. There is deep rooted racism from Thais towrd hilltibes of all types, esp occurs in the north. 2. Racism occurs between the hilltribes themselves. 3. The hilltribes are very diverse. 4. I have backpacked in the north (real backpacking, you know, with a backpack) and sleeping in the jungle. I did not learn anything about hilltribes this way, and even less about them during my one trek tour. But I was never high on golden triangle drugs. I only learned about the plight when I became high on a certain Lisu smile a few years ago. And there is NO WAY I am an expert on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Says MightyMouse: I do not know of a country that does not impose on its citizen the learning of one main language, that being the language of their country. If everybody in one country can speak a common language, communications are a lot better. For example, the expression "watch your mind" is a good example of how the expression "watch your head" can be mistranslated. Ever been to Montreal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pom_Jao_Choo Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 I FUCKING HATE !!! It when.... On a work day I greet people at shops and services and general people in public on a work day (IE the mangy dirty shirt,cheapo tie and brutalized dress shoes) and am greeted as a great friend. And then days later on my day off when I am wearing shorts,sandals and a t-shirt sudenly I am unseen or a piece of rubish lying in the gutter in spite of my the spending caital I'm carying. Allso I hate Brits who side with the Thais. Though they will deny it and insist its not true, its actually because the weather in their country is so crapy theyve never owned a pair of short pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 after all we are only speaking of completely stripping a people of their culture and written form of communication ------------------------------- what form of communication. What culture? More than a few families in Issan still have ties across the border, still speak lao, so do the khmer Issan south, who speak cambodian. Incidentally, tell me what happened in these 2 countries in the last 30 years, massive communist blanketing of the countries, genocide, people dragged into wars, having to choose side, losers becoming refugees or interned in camps (and before that , it was big brother protectorat from the french). What culture do you talk about? Go to Laos, go to Issan and tell me how Issan seems so depleted of ancient culture that laotians have not lost too. Half of my books on thai culture are about cultural behaviour in Issan and brands of Buddhism practiced there that were quite vibrant even 20 years ago. Sure they have lost, but like they have lost in the french countryside, and so many countries where old ways gave way to modern consumerism. An Issan not integrated fully in Siam would have been up to grab by the french, because that's what they tried to do off and on thru Chula's reign and it took him real diplomatic skills and a staff of european advisers to fend them off, plus land anyway (Trat, Chantaburi I believe). that means Pol Pot could have ruled west of the Mekong too, maybe. How about Chiang Mai and the North, cultural genocide too? Sure things do change, and not for the better always, and diversity loses everytime, but you making it sound like a cultural genocide, that's what i respond to. Cordially Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 [color:"blue"] Ever been to Montreal? [/color] or San Diego or KL or dozens of other 'Cosmopolitan' cities in the world. Cultural diversity and the ability for a society to grow and thrive from it and the keystones to progress IMO. It may be a global village, but we are not all from the same suburb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovineye Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Of course. I just couldn't pass it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 C'est bien, pas de problem mon ami. (That's good, no problem my friend.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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