BelgianBoy Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 shygye said: [color:"green"] Here in Belgium or even in the US it is definitely not true that your case of each generation is getting richer, on the contrary..... [/color] Can you provide some economic data to support your statement? :: Sure...... but only my family then..... 5 generations ago, the great-grandfather of my grandfather went to Congo and made a fortune, he had 4 kids, each had a castle and 2-3 factories in Belgium. Their kids played around, and their kids spend it. What was left of it helped my granddad to pay for his studies, he was a master inventor in electronics but an economic catastrophy. He did built the first TV here in 1925 and had dozens of inventions, some patterned, most not. He died without a penny, my parents married with 100 Bt in their pockets. My dad had a successfull career, and so did I. Good example enough ? or you still believe each generation is getting richer ? :: Cheers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 Good example enough ? or you still believe each generation is getting richer ? Really a bad proove. Your statement was meant to be general. And generally each generation becomes richer, here and in Thailand. The only exception is Africa where bad politics prevent in most african countries any amelioration. Now, the statement that each generation becomes richer doesn't contradict that in the industrialized countries older people are richer than young people. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaad Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 And generally each generation becomes richer, here and in Thailand I think you'd better say that their standard of life improves rather than becoming richer. There's a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shygye Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 [color:"green"] Good example enough ? or you still believe each generation is getting richer ? [/color] Yes, I still believe. One data point does not make a trend. You are confusing what happens to a particular family with what happens in the general population of that generation. Heck, you can see a bum in Brussels that does NOT mean all Belgians are bums. I just saw on a show in the USA, that after correcting for inflation incomes have increased 300% over the past 50 years. Now that certainly indicates each generation is getting richer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loner w/a boner Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 "Oh, my prophetic soul!" Hi Dave. Had this EXACT same conversation with my galpal THIS VERY NIGHT. Some interesting points. Ya know ... as I'm sure we all agree, the concept of giving is good, but your point is the same one I made, about re-generating the cycle of poverty -- and the result was the same -- no cigar. We've talked about the concept of "separate family" (another no go), and so on. And then it ocurred to me that maybe the parents weren't simply being financial parasites, but the economic realities demanded it work this way. What else can the kids do? I wouldn't have the heart to turn my back on my parents and let them die in dire poverty if there was ANY way I could help. Could you? However, until people live below their means, minimize consumer credit, save and invest a significant % of their income, and teach their children to do the same (in perpetuity), there will be no accumulation of family wealth. As you know, this isn't simply an economic theory -- it's a law. If contributions to parents can be budgeted in as a monthly expense, and young-uns still save, it would work. But how? They earn so little already. I, with a group, once watched a film brought by a missionary. It showed the poverty in Africa. At the end of the film, we were all asking the same question -- why do these people who have nothing to eat have 9, 12, 15 kids, if possible. The answer: The kids are the parent's social security. With all the disease and death, the parents need to ensure that at least a few kids survive in order to support them. What a living hell! I know there's an obvious difference regarding here in Thailand, but I think there are similarities, with regards to the children functioning as social security. I can't really put my finger on it yet -- I've not had the chance to think through it completely. This sounds really sick on my part, but all this sounds like a "turned-in" form of selfishness on the part of the parents. Like the spider that eats its young. Instead of "pushing out" to your prodgeny, your sucking them back in. It's hard for me to say, because where's the compassion for the parents? Can't just let them suffer, but don't want to condemn the future generations. I dunno yet. Some tough decisions to be made, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loner w/a boner Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I should know the answer to the "wealth" question up above, but I don't. Perhaps we can persuade some of our economically in-the-know members to post a bit. I'd like to know, too. Or perhaps they could post the thread under career/finances, then post a link from here to there. I'm definitely interested in the economic factors at play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaad Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 And generally each generation becomes richer, here and in Thailand. This would mean that at some point there wouldn't be any poor families left. That's highly unlikely. IMO the existance of poor (middle-class and rich) will always be part of this world. Think about poor families in the 19th. century and the 21st. century. Compare them and you'll notice a big difference in their standard of life. The family in the 21st. century has a much better life standard although it's still a poor family. So I don't think you can safely say that every generation becomes richer. The only exception is Africa where bad politics prevent in most african countries any amelioration. Any amelioration at all? Perhaps those people living in the jungle but not the average African citizen. Also THEIR standard of life improves, be it slower than any other place in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuytrede Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Your logic is flawed, and suadum pretty much showed you the reason why. The flaw is: it's not true that in the West we don't pay for our parents. We do it by paying social security. And it is a lot. This money goes not directly to our own parents, but the younger generation pays the older generation through their contributions to social security, the government just distributes the money (at least the pay-as-you-go system of most European countries works like this). A simplified example: if a German boss forks out 100 EUR for his worker, the government gets 20 EUR for old age insurance + 15 Eur for health insurance (used mainly for the old because they are the sick ones) + 5 EUR for unemployment insurance (a lot of it is used for the elderly because they cannot find a new job). This worker then doesn't have to send money to his parents who get a pension - because it was already deducted from his salary! As for the early "retirement age" in Thailand: yes, I am constantly amazed when I hear Thais saying that their parents are old and should not work anymore - and these parents are 50 years old. But I tend to forget that in my country de facto retirement age is less than 60. Together with a considerably lower life expectancy in Thailand it almost makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Dave, I too see your logic, and it makes sense to a westerner. That is the problem, your wife is not a westerner! You can try and make her realize that her father does not deserve anything from you etc, but that too will fail. My only advice is go steady, as this will no doubt be a source of problems for you for a long time to come. All I can say is, if she works and decides to send some of the money she earns to him, let her as long as it stays within reason (now define that!). If the father's support is supposed to come from the money you earn, then I'd say think very carefully before deciding either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Think about poor families in the 19th. century and the 21st. century. Compare them and you'll notice a big difference in their standard of life. The family in the 21st. century has a much better life standard although it's still a poor family. So I don't think you can safely say that every generation becomes richer. Wow, what a contradiction in your own statement!!! IMO the existance of poor (middle-class and rich) will always be part of this world. Aha, you mix relative and absolute poverty. the average African citizen. Also THEIR standard of life improves, be it slower than any other place in the world. In some african countries the standard of life decreased during the last 40 years. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.