khunsanuk Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Hi, "Knowing what will have happened to Ken I feel I huge disgust to the muslim world... .an absolute disgust..." So, you paint the entire muslim population with the same brush as a couple of fanatic lunatics? Rather short-sighted and sad, don't you think? I would say that the majority of muslims is just as saddened and disgusted by this as you and I. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check_bin_krap Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 khunsanuk said: Hi, "Knowing what will have happened to Ken I feel I huge disgust to the muslim world... .an absolute disgust..." So, you paint the entire muslim population with the same brush as a couple of fanatic lunatics? Rather short-sighted and sad, don't you think? I would say that the majority of muslims is just as saddened and disgusted by this as you and I. Sanuk! I would not say majority, not at all. It has been interesting to see some muslim leaders in Scandi countries not going against suicide bombers in Iraq. And you know? They are cheering in Pakistan every time this happens. Moderate are a minority in that religion, it differs from country to country - but over all thats the pic. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiLuk Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 This is excerpts from a statement on hostage taking from this page on an islamist website: http://www.islamonline.org/english/Contemporary/2004/09/Article04.shtml ----------------------------------------------- A Statement by the International Association for Muslim Scholars (IAMS) The Islamic View on Hostage Taking 27/09/2004 The following is a statement issued by the International Association for Muslim Scholars (IAMS)regarding the recent incidents of kidnapping and hostage taking. The IAMS was founded in London, July, 2004, by Sunni and Shiite scholars with the aim of forming an international Muslim juristic consensus that goes beyond sectarian affiliations. The IAMS is headed by Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi. Kidnapping and hostage taking are not an invention of our particular times. They go back long in history. But they have become so frequent these days because of the grave injustice suffered by weak and oppressed communities at the hands of powerful countries seeking to impose their will on them. Moreover, these oppressed communities seldom have adequate means and resources to repel aggression. Since some Muslims resort to such methods, at an increasing rate, thus going beyond the limits of what is lawful, we wish to clarify the Islamic perspective related to the matter. This ruling, or fatwa, sums up all the Islamic rules that apply to such acts: 1. Kidnapping is an aggression against others, be they Muslims or non-Muslims. It is a type of transgression which God has prohibited... 2. Taking prisoners is an act done in warfare. If it could be exceptionally permissible during war, it is totally forbidden in all other situations whatsoever. ...... Initiating aggression is not a part of Muslim ethics. It must never be characteristic of Muslims. Muslims may repel evil with a similar measure, but their purpose in doing so is not to retaliate; rather, it is to bring evil actions committed against them to an end, attempting to end evil against all humanity. ... Based on that, therefore, we declare that is it is forbidden to kidnap any human being in any situation whatsoever, other than in an open warfare situation, when the person kidnapped becomes a prisoner of war?and even in that case?he must not be killed. Indeed, even a prisoner of war must eventually be released, as the Qur?an states [either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates] (Muhammad 47:4). Needless to say, it is forbidden to kidnap anyone who is opposed to a war launched against us, or is sympathetic towards us, such as the two French journalists. We denounce all cases of kidnapping where the victims have nothing to do with the occupation of Muslim land. We demand an immediate and unconditional release of all people taken as hostages. 3. Even in the case of war, it is not permissible to kidnap innocent people or civilians, who must not be a war target, to begin with. From an Islamic point of view, civilians are all those who are non-combatants, such as women and children, as well as the elderly who have no role in the fighting, and men of any religion. The Prophet has given an express order ?not to kill women and children.?[2] He also said, ?Do not kill any young person.?[3] In an order to Khalid ibn Al-Waleed, the army commander, he said, ?Never kill a child or a labor worker.?[4] This last order includes anyone employed in non-combat capacity, such as factory workers, medical personnel, and the like. ... Therefore, we denounce taking school children as hostages in the school in North Ossetia, leading to a horrific massacre, despite the fact that we believe the Chechens have a just cause and that the Chechen people should be able to exercise their right to self-determination. We also denounce the kidnapping of two Italian women working for a humanitarian agency at the same time that we condemn the Italian government?s policy of alliance with the US aggression against Iraq. All such incidents are unlawful from the Islamic point of view. In addition, such incidents do not serve the interests of resisting the occupation of Iraq. We should remember in this connection that when the Quraizhah Jews committed a horrific act of treachery, violating their peace treaty with the Prophet and allying themselves with the aggressors who had declared their aim of annihilating the Muslim community, such treachery did not cause the Muslims to kill Jewish women and children or expose them to any danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickman Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 "I would say that the majority of muslims is just as saddened and disgusted by this as you and I." I wish this were the case, I really do, but I don't think it is. Muslim leaders around the world have to come out and loudly and publicly denounce what is going on. I'm not saying it is right, but many Wesrterners I know are getting really angry, upset and vengeful about all of this. Stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Hi, "but many Wesrterners I know are getting really angry, upset and vengeful about all of this." And thus the spiral continues.... Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 What do you suggest Stick? Go up to soi 3 and beat up some Arabs? Down to Pattani and bomb a mosque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxxxl Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Stickman said:"I would say that the majority of muslims is just as saddened and disgusted by this as you and I." I wish this were the case, I really do, but I don't think it is. Muslim leaders around the world have to come out and loudly and publicly denounce what is going on. I'm not saying it is right, but many Wesrterners I know are getting really angry, upset and vengeful about all of this. Stick I have to agree. Individually, some Muslims may condem these actions, but the Muslim community doesn't; and, in some cases takes the ends-justifies-the-means attitude on the supposed war against the West. In my opinion, Muslims are pathologically incapable of the kind of organized influence, diplomacy, and politics that other countries/cultures use to affect change. This barbaric shit is going to fuck their cause and their and people. Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaad Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Very very very sad. Of course Muslim leaders won't publicly object to such unhuman actions. They fear for their own ass if they (especially being fellow Muslims) speak against those sick fanatics. I don't expect them to come out with an opinion on this. Muslims have a bad name, but fact is that we can't hold all of them responsible for what's happening in the Middle East. The day that innocent Muslims are targetted by Westerners is the day that I'll lose all hope that's left in me (not much) to find a peaceful solution. All I can hope for is that we won't become racists unknowingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thalenoi Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 WWIII is near??? Just a thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 thalenoi said:WWIII is near??? Just a thought.... perhaps it has been going on for a while and we just didn't notice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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