shygye Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 >> You seem to forget that neither me nor anyone I know have never had any problem with ATMs. Are we all lying too? << Using that logic, aircraft have never crashed since it has not happened to YOU. Just because something has not happened to you does not mean it never happens to anyone. I have never been hit by lightning but every year people die from lightning strikes. Ask your bank in Japan about ATM fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 CondomKing said: LaoHuLi said:And lets try to keep it to actuallities, not something you read on a yellow web site. What's a "yellow" web site? akin to "Yellow Journalism", sensationalist, 'tabloid' reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 shygye said:>> You seem to forget that neither me nor anyone I know have never had any problem with ATMs. Are we all lying too? << Using that logic, aircraft have never crashed since it has not happened to YOU. Just because something has not happened to you does not mean it never happens to anyone. I have never been hit by lightning but every year people die from lightning strikes. Ask your bank in Japan about ATM fraud. Most of my professional life I have worked within the banks, with different computer vendors. My trust in their conduct of business is unshaken by anything in this thread. What a bank would first say: - change the PIN right now - file a police report - we will investigate and update you next business day Seems to me the bank had not been involved here at all, Thailand or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun_Kong Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 LaoHuLi said:ok, with ackowledgement that it did happen to HTs gf and to others here in LOS ... and certainly to a more significant number than is random chance ............. It still seems IMO to more of an inside job than an a highly orchestrated high tech operation. Logistically to get a few 1000 baht a pop it defiew any logic. (Yes I know this is Thailand ) But here's question has anyone FIRST HAND knowledge of this happening with an International bank card? Local ones could be scammed from the inside IMO, but pretty difficult to see the scenario with a card from outside the country, or even a different bank. And lets try to keep it to actuallities, not something you read on a yellow web site. Didja see my post above? On that trip, I used my Bank of America card in ATMs many times and at the Ambassador once. Slightly different situation (no PIN, no cash withdrawals), but my card was apparently cloned. I suppose many people could have been involved: whoever got the number, crooked electronic dealers in various cities in Taiwan, etc, but, it appears that a card was used. Bank of America returned the money to my account almost immediately and had me file a police report and sign an affadavit. Then the jerk at the bank DID NOT SEND THE PAPERS TO WHATEVER OFFICE and BoA took the money back, said it would take 2-3 months to have the funds redeposited. As I was in the States at the time, a livid KK showed up at the jerk's office about 30 minutes later. $$ were returned within 30 minutes. Don't think I'd use the :cussing: :onfire: :onfire: loud voice/crazed customer :cussing: :onfire: :onfire: approach in LOS, though, HT! ************************************** Last year, my American ATM card went on a merry journey to Taiwan, without me. It was used everyday to purchase several hundred dollars worth of electronic gear for several weeks, running up thousands of U$D in DEBIT on my account. Have no idea how it happened that someone got the card number- the only place I remember using it was at Ambassador Hotel, to secure my reservation. I guess a clone was made of the card. It was never used at an ATM to withdraw cash (no PIN?) It peeved me that I could not withdraw one penny over my account balance, but the thieves were able to rack up thousands in debt, even after the card was cancelled! The bank said that Taiwan has many dealers without a POS machine, just a paper system, where they only do a batch submittal at the end of the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Hi, TTM, I do really give a shit if the girl is lying or not. I do care about you (and others) consistenly assuming she does and turning this into a personal 'attack' (for lack of a better word). HT's relationship is *not* the topic of discussion here, ATM fraud is. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 KK.... yup, I understand. But yours is a case of a physical card being cloned and used elsewhere. No pin was necessary for use as debit card. This is often a very organized crime effort with duplicate card readers installed in restaurants, shops etc. Then they clone the card and take it for a buying spree. What I thought we were trying to do here was find solid incidences of "cash withdrawals" using and ATM in LOS. that, would require a PIN and despite all the anecdotal evidence presented about this happening (and real reports from Cent and HT's GF) and Mission Impossible theories of card readers and pin hole cameras, I remain firm in the belief that these were inside scams done by bank employees having accesss to both ATM cash and bank computers. So again, I ask anyone with first hand knowledge of such ATM cash withdrawals happening that involved either using an ATM card from another bank company or an international one to come forward. Then we MAY have a scenario for some high tech shenanigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thalenoi Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 >>>Most of my professional life I have worked within the banks, with different computer vendors. My trust in their conduct of business is unshaken by anything in this thread. What a bank would first say: - change the PIN right now - file a police report - we will investigate and update you next business day >>> I worked 10 years at a bank and know a few on fraud (not ATM's) Reading you, you won't believe how inventive bank employees are in finding ways to relieve some cash from their employer. Playing around with ATM's is a clever approach though.... and your comment "we will investigate and update you next business day" in LOS???? Common TTM, that's the best joke I ever read on Thailand BTW, in Europe banks are liable for fraud with bank cards, not in LOS so to see :: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 thalenoi said: What a bank would first say: - change the PIN right now - file a police report - we will investigate and update you next business day and your comment "we will investigate and update you next business day" in LOS???? Common TTM, that's the best joke I ever read on Thailand So, has any of the actions above happened? No. Why is it a joke? Thai banks use same hardware, same software and same set of skills to run their business as any other bank in the world. They imposed ATMs on us to lower their cost of operations, why would they not be responsible for the fraud their equipment is prone to? Again, Thai or not Thai, same to me. Can't imagine the bank marching me out the door or hanging up without resolving my complaint in a way more professional than "we can't do anything". Ahh...here is one first hand experience. No ATM but EFTPOS (which requires card swiping and PIN keying). I paid insurance for my car but the transaction went through a broker and appeared on a statement as a good chunk of money that went to an unknown company based in some small place I had never heard of. When I complained, the banks said they will investigate but will charge me 20$ if my claim turned to be false. And it was false...I was charged 20$ penalty for crying wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorro Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 TTM said You seem to forget that neither me nor anyone I know have never had any problem with ATMs. Are we all lying too? Your comments are quite astounding really and your logic completely flawed. So because you and none of your friends have had problems therefore the problem doesn't exist. Your sampling from your self and friends probably adds up to at most 30-40 people max. Wait a minute thou there are numerous cases on record both on the net in newspapers and by posters on this board who claimed to have been victims of ATM fraud. Who do you think has more credibility? A person who samples himself and a few friends or thousands of people who have access to the net and newspapers. I suppose you are going to tell us next that it is a zionist plot or some other such conspiracy. Think too much has not really thought too much about this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thalenoi Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 >>>Why is it a joke? Thai banks use same hardware, same software and same set of skills to run their business as any other bank in the world.>>> Because thai businesses who care for their customers are rare and between. Every time I have complained about bad service here they wave you away with a smile. This practice (or lack of) is so anchored with thais the gf even does not bother to complain, same as original poster said. And you mention same "set of skills" Thats plain wrong. It is my experience that 9 out of 10 people in any profession are incompetent. They learn how to do something, but that does not make them professionals. They just mud away and survive. The problem lies more with the people than with the hardware. It is also my experience that most salespeople in LOS have no clue about the product they are supposed to sell. They are rather a hinder to the salesprocess. Most thais can not think or take initiatives beyond their imposed procedure imagined by management and I fear customer care is not mentionned there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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