ATM fraud in Thailand

[Guest]

Hi TTM,

 

See above.

 

HT

[Guest]

very interesting thread indeed. there appear lot of things to watch out for.

the most important facts though have not been posted.

if someone could be so nice and post where i can actually order those pincard readers, including a proper manual how to install and use, please.

much obliged.

[Guest]

[Central Scrutinizer]

TTM,

 

Just anecdotal you say? Urban legend? It's happening and growing worse, and now it is hitting Thailand as well, and getting worse. Card readers costing as little as 150 bucks. And you know they can probably copy one here and make it even cheaper like they do everything else. Read below. This is just from one of the links MM put up. Yeah, okay it came from MM, but he didn't go out and make the website and publish the frigging article himself do ya think? Oh yeah, that's right, the Thais are too stupid and backwards to figure this shit out, right? Like they don't have shitloads of electronics experts and scammers with a degree that may find this an easy and lucrative way to make some baht.

 

Cent

 

p.s. Check out the site that shows pictures of the card readers and PIN cameras. Let it load and watch the set-up in the slide show. Amazingly simple really once you have the technology, which any decent electronic tech can make with the diagrams, and anything can be made pretty damned cheaply here TTM. Think about it. It's not always the GF or wife's fault or a bargirl scam. Grow out of it.

_________________________________________________

 

 

Guard your card: ATM fraud grows more sophisticated

 

By Chris Richard

 

Special to The Christian Science Monitor

 

 

 

Almost as soon as banks introduced the automatic teller machine 20 years ago, crooks started tapping into the system.

 

At first, their approach was crude - peek over a bank customer's shoulder at a machine, copy down the person's PIN, and then figure out a way to steal the card.

 

But that's a hit-or-miss scam, like trolling for fish. These days, financial institutions and bank customers face the criminal equivalent of gill nets - computerized networks that can rake in information from thousands of unsuspecting victims per day, per ATM.

 

"Some of these schemes are so sophisticated that they can be hard for people in the business to detect," says Kurt Helwig, executive vice president of the Electronic Funds Transfer Asso- ciation.

 

The newest device for stealing information is a thin, transparent-plastic overlay on an ATM keypad that captures a user's identification code as it is entered. To the card holder, it might look like some sort of cover to protect the keys. In fact, microchips in the device record every keystroke.

 

Another transparent device inside the card slot captures card data. While the cardholder completes the transaction, a computer attached to the overlay records all the data necessary to clone the card.

 

Restaurants represent another security leak, according to special agent Jim Kollar, head of the United States Secret Service fraud team in Los Angeles. He says employees sometimes pass ATM cards through hand-held card readers as they carry them toward the cash register. Mr. Kollar says he's seen similar schemes in convenience stores.

 

Some ruses are right out in the open. In one especially successful scam, a hand-lettered sign directed ATM customers away from a bank machine. The sign explained that that machine was out of order, and asked customers to use another terminal - which turned out to be to a card reader set up by a fraud ring, Kollar says.

 

Once they have the card data, criminals use commercially available card writers - some selling for as little as $150 - to make bogus cards.

 

Last year, the American Bankers Association (ABA) reported fraud involving debit cards had cost banks nearly $51 million. The industry has fought back. ATM-maker Tidel Engineering, for example, has redesigned its keyboard so that it will break immediately if someone tries to insert a data-catching device, called a "wedge," between the keyboard and the computer.

 

The antifraud software division of Fair-Isaacs Corp. has developed a program that keeps track of ATM users' spending habits and flags unusual transactions. Other software tries to catch geographical anomalies - say, if a card is used to pay for groceries in Los Angeles, then for other purchases in Rome hours later.

 

In such instances, the bank generally absorbs the loss. Under Federal Reserve regulations, ATM cardholders can be held liable for no more than $50 if they report a lost or stolen card or an unauthorized transaction within two days. As financial institutions have reduced the number of their branches and tellers, they've often encouraged customers to use ATMs by offering a "zero liability" policy in cases of theft or fraud.

 

But in cases where there is no obvious theft, bank-fraud investigators can be skeptical.

 

"There are people out there who will pretend they've been defrauded," says John Hall, a spokesman for the ABA. "It used to be that it was very difficult to get the PIN, and often it turned out that the perpetrator was someone the victim knew. Now that they've come up with these skimming devices, the thefts are much more advanced."

 

Kelly Quick, a compliance officer at a Los Angeles investment firm, agrees. He says he still can't figure out how somebody used his ATM information in January to withdraw $1,420 from his Bank of America account. The bank credited his account for that amount, then took the money back three weeks later, claiming that "the transactions were authorized."

 

Mr. Quick says it took another month of arguing with bank officials to get his money back. Bank of America spokesman Harvey Radin declined to discuss Quick's case, but called the bank's investigations of any such cases "thorough."

 

But Jay Foley, codirector of the Identity Theft Resource Center in San Diego, says these investigations aren't thorough enough.

 

"Basically, right now you have X amount of days to clarify the situation with the bank, but the bank is the one that's holding all the cards," he says. "They have the ATM machine. They have the video machine on the ATM that recorded the transaction. They know the time and date of the transaction. They have the ability to look it up and see, was that you standing there or not? But they ... expect you to prove you weren't in that town and didn't use that ATM," he says.

 

In 1999, the federal Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which oversees federal banks, received 251 complaints from bank customers, claiming fraud investigators had mishandled their claims. Complaints nearly tripled by 2002, the last year for which figures are available, to 715.

 

While that's a tiny fraction of total ATM transactions, bank officials acknowledge they're paying attention. For one thing, they say, most people don't even know about the Comptroller of the Currency. A bank customer who pursues a complaint must be pretty angry, and some banking officials are starting to urge a gentler approach with customers.

 

"It's an ongoing debate," Mr. Hall says. "Banks are constantly walking a tightrope between convenience and security."

[Central Scrutinizer]

All,

 

Or maybe this article from a year ago on ATM fraud in Taiwan. Happened there, why can't it happen in Thailand a year later? You think the crooks here don't hear about this shit and figure out ways they can do this as well?

 

Cent

______________________________________________

 

 

 

ATM fraud driving move to chip cards in Taiwan

 

 

 

? 14 October 2003

 

 

TAIWAN ? Taiwan's Ministry of Finance pledged to safeguard the interests of bank account holders after a recent ATM scam drained the savings accounts of at least 36 Bank of Taiwan (BOT) clients.

 

Finance Minister Lin Chuan said, "The interests of depositors will be fully protected. Local banks should take full responsibility and guard against the risk of similar fraud."

 

According to a Taiwan News report, the ATM scam is expected to cost the bank at least NT$3.78 million ($11,176 U.S.) Seven banks, including ChinaTrust Commercial Bank and the Land Bank of Taiwan, disclosed similar recent cases of account fraud.

 

To restore consumer confidence, Lin refused to reveal the latest information about how many banks had suffered similar ATM scams and how much money has been withdrawn using duplicated ATM cards, claiming the information would hamper the police investigation.

 

"We hope (the confidence of) local depositors will not be negatively affected by the incident," Lin said, but he added that he could not rule out the possibility of similar ATM fraud in the future.

 

Most of the BOT victims had accounts at the bank's Tainan branch, but their money was withdrawn through ATMs in central and northern Taiwan, said Lee Shang-yann, president of the bank.

 

The BOT has approximately 6 million customers with 2.66 million ATM cards in circulation, although only 1.7 million ATM cards are active, according to Lee.

 

The investigators found illegally installed cameras at the BOT Tainan brach, allowing the thieves to steal card holders' PINs and later use the information to make duplicate cards, said Chou Yew-wei, brigade captain of the National Criminal Investigation Bureau's seventh Investigation Corps.

 

The police on Oct. 13 revealed two videotapes showing two criminals getting cash from a BOT ATM and a Fuhwa Commercial Bank ATM in Taipei county. The criminals withdrew a total of NT$110,000 ($3,235 U.S.) from the two ATMs, according to the police.

 

"As local consumers find it increasingly difficult to avoid ATM and credit card scams that drain their accounts, chip-embedded ATM cards will gradually replace traditional ATM cards," said Pan Wei-jong, sales director of Financial Information Service Co., Ltd. (FISC) "I believe recent ATM scams will speed up the launch of IC chip ATM cards."

 

FISC monitors and processes cash transactions at 18,000 ATMs throughout the nation. Only 300 ATMs islandwide have completed upgrades to provide services to chip-embedded ATM card holders, according to the Taiwan News.

 

While only 13 banks currently have chip-embedded ATM cards in circulation, Pan expects the number to increase to 70 by March. He expects chip-embedded ATM cards to replace all 50 million traditional cards within the next five to six years.

[think_too_mut]

I'm going to live my life and ignore all the warnings you and the others have posted. Pure bullshit.

 

A bank is a bank. Break into it, if you can.

 

And, no way your girl had lied to you?

[shygye]

[color:"green"] I will be glad to introduce them to some senior police and banking officials that would take them most seriously. [/color]

 

You should get the contact info from HT for his GF so she can tell these officials. Also you can ask Jasmine if her bro' would contact your banking officials.

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

Guys, I think we want to keep the personal stuff out of here, okay?

 

Sanuk!

[Redbaron]

HIGH THAIED said:

>>>Could there be one more - that your gf simply and plainly lied to you?<<<

 

No. Not an option. But why is so hard for you to consider ATM theft is a real possibility?

 

You don't think can happen? And are so secure in your belief that no one can do? It's time to wake up, my friend.

 

HT

 

HT, I don't know you any better than you know me, but I find it worrying that you won't even consider the possibility she's lying to you. It sure would explain the 'mai pen rai' attitude she and her family are displaying.

"Mai pen rai, HT has a good heart he said he will do anything for me...." That kind of thing.

It wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

[iuytrede]

>> "... consumers find it increasingly difficult to avoid ATM and credit card scams that drain their accounts..."

 

Please read this again.

The situation in Taiwan was thus that most people got really reluctant to use any ATM. BOT is the biggest and best bank in Taiwan (government), Chinatrust is the biggest and best private bank. If those two's ATMs weren't safe people figured no ATM is safe. And Chinese do not have a "mai pen rai" attitude when it comes to money. It was much worse than in Thailand. And it was really ATM scams, whereas in Thailand it always looks more like an inside job, the ATM being a convenient excuse for the bank.

 

The solution to the problem in Taiwan?

"As local consumers find it increasingly difficult to avoid ATM and credit card scams that drain their accounts, chip-embedded ATM cards will gradually replace traditional ATM cards," said Pan Wei-jong, sales director of Financial Information Service Co., Ltd. (FISC) "I believe recent ATM scams will speed up the launch of IC chip ATM cards."