ATM fraud in Thailand

[think_too_mut]

>Who do you think has more credibility?

A person who samples himself and a few friends or thousands of people who have access to the net and newspapers.

I suppose you are going to tell us next that it is a zionist plot or some other such conspiracy.

Think too much has not really thought too much about this one.

 

 

For almost 20 years of dealing with many banks I witnessed how meticulous they are and how seriously they take their business.

All those anocdotes from around the Universe end up in one place - bank's data center. That's more reliable source of information than all millions of links and articles dispersed around the globe that you can find.

 

Even before any of us on the board were able to roam the net and read, those guys knew it all. It's a very well maintained and controlled environment, probably 0.01% of irregularities require human attention - usually accounts of a deceised, divorces and similar "life crisis" events.

 

If anything happened to my ATM account I am sure I would be compensated.

 

Take AMEX for example: if somebody (massive occurrence in Russia) cracks your card using computer algorythm and buys things at your expense - it's not your fault, AMEX will reimburse you.

 

Bad things do happen but you are not left as a roadkill.

 

That's not in line with many threads here.

[thalenoi]

found a newspaper reporter from "Noordholland Dagblad" to whom it happened: unless you want to archive this as tabloid:

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Mijn giro is geplunderd! van onze verslaggever

alkmaar-Het zal je gebeuren. Een geplunderde rekening nadat ongemerkt je pinpas is gekopieerd in zo'n keurige geldautomaat. Verslaggever Rien Floris overkwam het. Hij stond in één klap rood. Zijn relaas.

 

Ja hoor, ze hebben 2250 euro van mijn girorekening geplukt. Bij de giromaat naast de supermarkt in Oudorp is op 12 februari mijn giropas gekopieerd. Terwijl ik nietsvermoedend 100 euro opnam. Dat kan ja, een giropas kopiëren. Dat wist ik. Maar, míjn pas!

 

Ik die wel eens stukjes in de krant schrijf over fraude met passen. Die precies weet hoe die 'voorzetmondjes' die fraudeboeven op een geldautomaat zetten er uitzien.

 

Ik dus. Die niemand vertrouwt als de pinautomaat plots hapert. Want je weet het maar nooit, een bankpas kun je overal kopiëren. Dat weet ik allemaal. Ook dat er folie op een geldautomaat kan zitten waarmee ze je pas pikken.

 

Ik kan ook uitleggen dat er in een folderbakje naast de geldautomaat een minuscule camera verborgen kan zitten die de vingerbeweging registreert van mijn pincode.

 

Die pincode die ik nu wel wereldwijd bekend kan maken, want mijn pas is geblokkeerd. Op 6, 7 en 8 maart heeft de kopieerboef in totaal 2250 euro gepind. Bij geldautomaten die luisteren naar de naam ATM 2024 en ATM 2201 B. Espa Ol in Barcelona. Dat kan ik allemaal op mijn rekeningenoverzicht zien. Ik had verdikkeme liever zelf die euro's gepind in Barcelona. Dan had ik er nog wat aan gehad.

 

De telefoonmevrouw van de bank wilde weten wanneer ik was geboren en of ik mijn postcode kende. Daarna was ze vooral behulpzaam. Blij met mijn begrip en ze stelde mij gerust. Ze gaat het terugstorten. Als ik niet meer rood sta, denk ik dat ik maar eens op vakantie ga. Naar Spanje met een honkbalknuppel in de handbagage. Op zoek naar ATM 2024 B. Espa Ol in Barcelona.

 

vrijdag 12 maart 2004, 07:01

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In short english:

He used his ATM card next to a supermarket on 12 feb in Holland and was debited 6, 7 and 8 march in Barcelona Spain for 2250 euro at specific ATM's as stated on his account print out.

He got reimbursed by the bank though, seems he could prove he was not in Spain on those dates, unless he is a crook or a liar...

[thalenoi]

From BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3996745.stm

 

ok, tired of this now, cheers.

 

Cash machine fraud nearly doubles

ATM

UK card fraud is on the increase

Cash machine fraud increased by 85% to £61m during the past year, according to the Association of Payment Clearing Services (Apacs).

 

Cash machine crime was the fastest growing form of card fraud in the past year, the banking payment body added.

 

Fraudsters target cash machines using skimming devices, which copy card details, and miniature camera devices, which record cardholders' PINs.

 

However, Apacs added that the majority of cash machine withdrawals are safe.

 

Fraudulent activities

 

 

Many fraudsters prefer to employ more sophisticated - some would say 'white collar' - techniques to commit their crime

 

How can you prevent card fraud?

 

Recently, Apacs revealed that total card fraud rose by 18% to £478.8m in the year to June 2004.

 

The £28.1 m increase in fraudulent cash machine withdrawals accounts for a major portion of the overall rise in fraud.

 

Fraudsters place a skimming device over the cash card insert, while a secret miniature camera above the keypad records the PIN number.

 

If there is no camera in place, a fraudster may lurk near the cash machine spying on users in a bid to capture their PIN numbers.

 

Skimming is a process whereby the data from a card's magnetic strip is electronically copied onto another card.

 

The replica card is then used to purchase goods or withdraw cash, often on the other side of the world.

 

Victim

 

One victim, Hilary Murdoch from London, said she was unaware she had been targeted.

 

 

HAVE YOUR SAY

It's a horrible thinking that someone is taking a copy of your card, and will then spend your money

Claire, Kent

 

Send us your comments

"My bank phoned me up and informed me there had been a couple of very large transactions on my debit card that weren't me," she said.

 

"Following that they stopped my card and are now investigating that fraud.

 

"It was £900 and if they hadn't stopped it when they did there would have been another £1000 after that as well," she added.

 

Safety

 

In total, cardholders withdraw £144bn from cash machines in the UK each year.

 

"Cash machines are our most commonly used and most convenient way to access our money, with 75 cash withdrawals made every second," Sandra Quinn, Apacs spokeswoman, said.

 

 

It is much safer to carry a card around than keep a lot of cash in your wallet

Sandra Quinn, Apacs

 

"Remember, it is much safer to carry a card around than keep a lot of cash in your wallet and if you are a victim of card fraud you will not suffer any financial losses as long as you haven't acted negligently."

 

Ms Quinn added that criminals were stepping-up their fraudulent activities during the introduction of chip and pin card technology.

 

Technology

 

Chip and pin cards aim to cut fraud by including a smart chip, which can store more information than the usual magnetic strips, and also by having users verify transactions by keying in a pin number rather than signing a receipt.

 

France pioneered the technology more than 10 years ago - reportedly cutting fraud by almost 80% as a result.

 

Latest figures from the Chip and Pin programme show more than 50 million new cards have been sent out to around 25 million of the UK's 42 million card holders.

 

Apacs is advising cardholders to check their account regularly in order to spot bogus transactions.

[think_too_mut]

>In short english:

He used his ATM card next to a supermarket on 12 feb in Holland and was debited 6, 7 and 8 march in Barcelona Spain for 2250 euro at specific ATM's as stated on his account print out.

He got reimbursed by the bank though, seems he could prove he was not in Spain on those dates, unless he is a crook or a liar...

 

 

That's what I am saying. If something happens the bank would not just shrug and send you away.

Also, look at the amount: much more than 1000B.

 

I believe if you stick to your guns and can prove it's not your fault (like being elsewhere while a transaction was being done) Thai banks would listen to you and reimburse you.

 

What hell of a bank in the normal world (Thailand is part of it) would stand aside and watch anybody's savings being dragged away while being stored on their very own equipment and computers!?

 

Three transactions so far, nothing (according to the posts of OP) has been done to prevent the fourth that may wipe out everything that's in the account.

 

Sitting and watching a thief slicing one's savings peel by peel?

 

Once aware, no bank nor individual would do that.

 

Fraud happens but I can't believe Thai banks can be as careless as the thread suggests.

[check_bin_krap]

MightyMouse said:

:: HIGH THAIED, the Bangkok police have warned people for at least a year that this stuff is going on.

 

[color:"red"] The following should help you: [/color]

 

From www.ATMMarketplace.com

 

[color:"blue"] ATM fraud on rise in UK [/color]

 

The same stuff happens here in Norway. A lot of card readers stuck on the ATM's, or cameras trying to catch the PIN code. With some precaction and care, you can avoid this.

 

I don't think its many inside jobs. Such people get too greedy, and are caught.

[shygye]

[color:"green"] Why is it a joke? Thai banks use same hardware, same software and same set of skills to run their business as any other bank in the world. [/color]

 

It is a joke because Thailand does NOT have or enforce consumer protection laws and regulations. The laws banks in the west HAVE to abide by or risk government action.

 

For example, Jasmine's brother never got his money returned.

[iuytrede]

Bangkok Bank's call center routinely asks me to key the PIN of my ATM card into the phone (even I do not use their phone banking service - not safe -, I just call their call center which has the same number for some general inquiries).

 

Every time they ask this I hang up immediately.

[Guest]

A bit late in adding to this thread and not really aimed at you, more perhaps to give anyone from the UK and based in the LOS something to consider.

 

Without getting overly specific, I too have a bit of experience in the banking world (UK) ? although mainly dealing with the consequences of ?human nature?, rather than anything overly technical.

 

With regard to your comments that

BTW, in Europe banks are liable for fraud with bank cards

I am sure you are aware that the UK has been introducing ?Chip & Pin? to plastic cards, once they are fully rolled out (later this year?) this will majorly slash the amount of fraud committed against Banks.

 

This will be for two reasons, the first being that the technology to reproduce / clone these cards will not immediately be in such widespread circulation as that used now, but secondly (and for the Banks, far more importantly) the losses incurred will be increasingly passed to the retailers and the customers.

 

The new Terms and Conditions which accompany new Chip & Pin Cards make it very clear (somewhere on page 5, paragraph 7b, subsection (iv) and in very small print ) that it is now completely YOUR responsibly to look after the PIN number This would perhaps be fair enough ? if only the new cards did not now require you to use your PIN number absolutely everywhere (and not just at ATM?s) and in places that are completely unsecure and easily compromised ? the presumption will become that if a PIN number was used during a fraud that YOU must have disclosed it (either deliberately or negligently) and therefore YOU are liable. And Bingo! A lot of bank fraud solved ? for the Banks :: ::.

 

Obviously the status quo will remain in force and Banks will not start strictly applying this new policy until everything has been rolled out ? for obvious ?commercial? reasons.

 

What do I do? I mainly use cash from over the counter :: But I do have convenient access to ?real? bank branches.

[thalenoi]

At least in Belgium we are using debits cards with chips for many years. You can use them anywhere, petrol stations, telephone boots, any kind of shop including small items (food) For the small shops yoy can charge a small amount to your card (100 euro?) and you just push the ok button on a small terminal which collect all the payments and connects once a day to ofload the trnsactions and credit the vendors account, no pin code to provide. You can also load your mobile etc.

[..]

thalenoi said:

At least in Belgium we are using debits cards with chips for many years. You can use them anywhere, petrol stations, telephone boots, any kind of shop including small items (food) For the small shops yoy can charge a small amount to your card (100 euro?) and you just push the ok button on a small terminal which collect all the payments and connects once a day to ofload the trnsactions and credit the vendors account, no pin code to provide. You can also load your mobile etc.

Cool. Man you Belgians have all the cool shit! First the neat ATM cards (why does not everyone have those) and now telephone boots! I thought only Maxwell Smart had those?

 

Cheers,

SD