ATM fraud in Thailand

[Yehtmae]

thalenoi said:

Hmmm, seems I will open a second bank account withouth ATM card and transfer my savings there keeping a small balance on the ATM card to withdraw cash....

 

Any other ideas welcome.

 

1) Buy loads of gold and wear it round your neck.

2) Realise you've got no money left, so 'pawn' the gold in the hope you can buy it back next month.

2) Give the gold money to your parents, sisters, brothers, uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, cousins, in-laws, friends, neighbours, etc

3) Start a business by buying motorbikes on HP and renting them out (at less than the monthly repayments) to all and sundry.

 

All of the above seemed to be 'sound investment strategies', to my (ex)wife. (and no, a bank account was only used to receive money, NEVER to store it, because she 'didn't trust the bank')

[Guest]

 

Your PIN is not in any way on your card. So NO card reader will get it. The card info and PIN only connect at the main sever. In sophisicated online transfers, a random PIN generator sends you a # that must be keyed in within a few seconds or the transaction is invalid.Even attaching a spycam will only work if you have some way of transmitting that data and linking it to that indiviual card transaction. We're getting pretty sofisticated here to scam a few 100 or even a few thousand baht. Really not worth the effort if one has that level of expertise and equipment.

 

I would suggest that 90% of these frauds are insider scams. The Atm is just a convenient excuse for the bank to use. The other 9% are created by people intentionally or otherwise disclosing their PIN. (Most write it down somewhere, and, like hotmail passwords, Thais often use very simplistic ones....... eg. 1111 or 1234 or 9999. I have spent many hours in Interne cafes while the 'girls' at the next machine do their days fishing. Most have multiple email accounts and matching bank accounts so they can show their 'boyfriend' that he is the 'only one' supprting them. This encourages easy siple to remember passwords and PINS)

 

This is a very interesting topic, it will be interesting to get more 'real' stories to see if there is a pattern, and to avoid the tabloid 'urban myth' headlines.

[Guest]

Wow,

 

Great info. here. Thanks all, for sharing.

 

I had no idea was such a big problem there. I'll pass on to my gf tonight, and tell her to only withdraw from a teller inside.

 

You would think, if such a big problem, they would all check their machines each morning, for card readers, and pin hole camera's.

 

Anyway, I'm glad I posted here. I was not aware at all, that this was such a big problem there. I am amazed at Bangkok Bank's lax attitude about this, though. They basically told gf that it was not their problem. Well....it *is* their problem. I'll sure go out of my way to never use their services, due to the treatment my tirak received. Their whole reason for existing, is to protect money deposited with them.

 

From what I gather, gf has no options but to use them. It was a requirement of her job, to open an account with them, so her paycheck could be direct-deposited with them. She already had an account there, so was not a big deal. But after hearing about mom's co-worker losing 100,000 baht through this crap, they had better start getting their shit together. Nothing can sink a bank faster, than the loss of confidence in their ability to protect assets. I can understand their problem in trying to combat new technology used against them, but I will never accept their lack of taking any responsibility for my gf's loss of all her funds. "Mai pen rai" attitiude can only go so far, in this case. When they accept her paycheck for deposit, they are accepting the responsibility of it's safety, and should be guaranteeing her sole access to it. Period!

 

"You got robbed, but is not our problem"?????

 

BULLSHIT!

 

HT

[Guest]

Hi LHL,

 

>>>>>Your PIN is not in any way on your card. So NO card reader will get it. The card info and PIN only connect at the main sever. In sophisicated online transfers, a random PIN generator sends you a # that must be keyed in within a few seconds or the transaction is invalid.Even attaching a spycam will only work if you have some way of transmitting that data and linking it to that indiviual card transaction. We're getting pretty sofisticated here to scam a few 100 or even a few thousand baht. Really not worth the effort if one has that level of expertise and equipment.<<<<<

 

This is what I thought. Your pin is not on your card. But gf is adamant that she has never given it to anyone. So this is where the spy-camera comes into play? And then use the card-reader to duplicate the card?

 

But why not just deplete the account at a single time? Most cases show only a small amount of baht being taken out. In gf's case, was 600, 1,200 and then 7,000, all on different days. But all at the same ATM, and all within the same billing period.

 

 

HT

[Guest]

that's why I figure that the small amount fraud by many times is someone inside doing the manipulation.

 

It also does not account for the ATM cash count being off every day. I suspect that's where the theft is. It's hard cash, and from what I've seen, normally refilled by a bank employee, not an outside company........ although this may occur as well...... I don't have first hand info on this.

 

so my scenario would be that someone (and probably an accomplice) scims from the ATM refill then covers it by entering phoney withdrawals in the system. Would only work with local debit cards, not International ones. They would try a small amount first to see if it was noticed and reported and if not, then move it up in scale. Since they know bank policy is to not investigate seriously, their asses are pretty well covered. Probably a manger or 2 involved and covering as well.In this case they would not need access to either the physical card or the pin. Just the cash and the computer.

 

If one could put together enough hard evidence and present it to both police and senior bank officials as well as the media...... no doubt heads would roll.Might even be some system changes, but don't count on that. Thais don't like their money messed with anymore than any one else.

 

Or we could just turn it over to Mighty Mouth and he could make another breakthough in investigative journalism.

[Guest]

Deplete an account on the first try - I doubt it. Many people have a maximum amount you can take out at one time and as far as I know, the most you can take out of an ATM machine in Bangkok is 20,000 baht. Like the falang that got took for a huge amount, if it was a large amount at first, he would have noticed, but because most people do not audit, like daily or weekly their account, a little bit taken her and a little bit taken there can disappear without being noticed.

 

As for the bank noticing the card readers: these devices can be installed in a matter of seconds. They operate for a short time in one location, are removed, and installed at another location.

 

 

Take for example, keyboard loggers: they exist, but most people have never seen one. Some of the loggers are unique: everything you write, etc. is recorded and transmitted to an e-mail address. There is no need to go to the internet shop, etc. and pick up the logs.

[thalenoi]

>>>the most you can take out of an ATM machine in Bangkok is 20,000 baht.

 

In one withdrawel.............just try to withdraw an other 20k and an other same place one minute later, no problem.

 

Not sure if they have daly/weekly limits though, but once I withdrew 60K at an ATM in two minutes.

[Guest]

Regarding getting photos of who is taking money out of an ATM machine: In both of today's papers it talks about a Thai man who got mad at two Thai boys who was stilling from him. He cut off their ear lobes and their penises!

 

He claimed he had proof of their stealing. He went to the bank and reviewed a picture of the boys withdrawing 1000 baht using his ATM card.

[lopburi3]

The ATM is limited in the amount of bills it can pay out in one transaction (usually seems to be 25) and also the amount per day as set by your bank (Bangkok Bank normal ATM card is 50k).

 

As anyone with access to ATM key has ability to take millions of baht in one go do not believe they are a real problem (installing readers) for a few hundred baht and the real chance they will be found out (they do not work alone).

 

Nobody I know has ever lost any money from an ATM account and I live here and use on a daily basis and a dozen family members using.

 

A lot of people do forget using an ATM or that their co-worker helped them out during lunch hour to withdraw some spending cash however.

 

Although fully believe there are and have been cases as reported in this thread; also believe this thread is on the tabloid side of the reporting scale.

[thai3]

 

I have almost never used ATM's for over ten years when a similar thing happened in the UK, hate machines at the best of times. However last week money exchange tried to do me out of 2,000 baht so that can be just as much trouble. Does the location of these ATM machines have any greater risk ie near soi 3?-peter