Guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 "Nope. So are they 'sex slaves' or hardened Ukrainian hookers?" The girl they most focus on seems to be estonian. I wouldn't bet Gitai's vision is telling about the whole sex industry in Israel (another movie I saw recently about a jewish mother and daugther who blow dicks for little money in Tel Aviv- I think-shows another side of the trade). In Promised Land the girls appear to have a very hard time, kept in prisonner like conditions, but they seem to have been acting willingly at the beginning. Not clear,but the future of girls who decide to go and work illegally as prostitutes in countries they don't know is hardly clear I'd guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 So many variables. I would imagine the Russian/Israeli mafia don't offer the most desirable working conditions for girls. On the other hand I've met Thai girls who've sold pussy in Japan and couldn't wait to go back for more. Seems to be no shortage of Uzbek ladies in Pattaya these days too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I think getting a little off-focus here. Slave-brothel. There is no such thing as getting fired. They either perform, or get beaten, and their debt raised. It's not an option for them to walk away for any reason. Where they have not been out rightly kidnapped, their handlers have paid someone for them. They are not about to let them walk, for any reason. If they refuse to perform, then they are quickly made an example of, for the other girls to see what can happen to them, if they do the same. In Japan, some of them wanting to go back? Yes....but only because they have cleared their debt. After being sold into bondage, and forced to have sex with many hundreds of guys, they can go back, and do the same, but actually get to keep a large percentage of what they make. It's the only way they can make what they have become, into something positive. In their minds, they are ruined for life (for many). Many are brainwashed into thinking they are a no-good human being anymore, and go back to do the same as they've done hundreds of times already, as a way of redemption. They have become worthless in their minds, but if can continue to do, at least they can provide for family in a good way (sending cash), and thus providing some positive purpose to the insanity, that is their life. If they can do, and provide a way for sister or brother, to not have to, they will gladly give themselves up to whatever is thrown at them. The Asian way of the need to give back to the family is a truely awesome thing, not easily understood by many Westerners. Me included. It's simply unrelenting. My gf once tried to kill herself, when she was young. Her uncle found her, and rushed her to the hospital, thus saving her life. Why did she do it? Her parents had a fight, and she thought that by killing herself, it would make them stop, and make everything better, for the family as a whole. You can't understand the problem, until you can understand this. Many of the situations are based on this, and where it's roots lay. Unfortunately, the handlers are not stupid, and pry on this aspect of cultural strength. It is used, and abused by them. I often think of it as akin to the jews being lead off passively to the slaughterhouses. "Why didn't they fight?". It was just not within their culture, at the time, to do so. I think my anology of a farang girl being transported to a foriegn land for a job in a factory, was a telling one. In many Asian cultures, conformity and obedience is a strength, taught from early childhood. And I think is why you don't see the screaming and kicking from them, that you might expect from someone, when being forced into a bondage situation. This seemingly almost immediate acceptance of the situation, is a huge part of why it exists, and exploited to such the degree, that it is. Just my own thoughts, and opinion. Nothing more. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I don't know how to respond to that kind of tear-jerker. You've pressed all the right moral buttons. Of course sexual slavery or any other kind of slavery is totally indefensible. I was going to post a long ramble dealing with my impressions of Pnom Penh and K.11 in particular but I don't think I'll bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hi, Was not meant to be a tear-jerker. Just my observations, and experience. >>>>I was going to post a long ramble dealing with my impressions of Pnom Penh and K.11 in particular but I don't think I'll bother.<<<<< Why not? It's a discussion board here! All positions are valid. Mine, no more than yours, or anyone else's. I, for one, would like to hear of your impressions. I've never been there. I'd be very interested to hear of what you experienced, and thought about it. It's only through real-life experiences/reports, that we can better understand the situation. So post on........ I don't mean to shut anyone down with my ramblings. I'm just talking out-loud, like we all do, and certainly not trying to take any moral high-road. I tried twice to get to Cambo's k-11, but failed both times, for various reasons. If I had, there is no way I would not have participated. And that is an absolute fact. I'm a whoremonger, with the best of them. Well.......'was'. Some Thai office girl recently grabbed my heart. But still doesn't make me love the bar scene there, any less. And having a good understanding of what it's all really about, can only be a good thing, for all of us here. And in all truth, has a lot to do with why NP.com even exists. It sure as hell ain't because of the"Classified's" or "Technology" forums. :: HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 MM - agree with all the above except no1. Sorry mate, crap, they may not tell you, but the few girls I know working in brothels have boyfriends, Now how the boyfriend copes I can never work out! DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Girls sold to Australia have tp provide 500 "Short time" (!/2 hour) to make up their "Contract" They work 6 dyas. if they work the 7th, everything on that day gets credited to their debt. After debt gone, they can then get $50 a customer. Gee - guess how many a day they service. Illegal, and at last being cracked down on in Australia. DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Hi ND, >>>Girls sold to Australia have to provide 500 "Short times" (1/2 hour) to make up their "Contract" They work 6 days. If they work the 7th, everything on that day gets credited to their debt. After debt gone, they can then get $50 a customer. Gee - guess how many a day they service? Illegal, and at last being cracked down on in Australia.<<<< Yep....is the same almost eveywhere. Girl's take birth control pills during menstration cycle, to avoid having their period, so can work 24/7. At least in Japan, a big problem is girls debt being raised for any infraction of the rules. Might be 500 S/T's they need to perform, but in actuallity, ends up being much higher. They have quota's their, also. If 5 per day, then debt service is enlarged, if they only manage to do 4. If customer complains, or she is caught eating a tomato in the garden during the day, is also added on to her debt. One interview of a Thai girl tricked into a legit job in Japan, had her almost done with her debt, and then the snack burnt down. She was then sold to another snack owner, and she had to start from scratch, with no credit for the hundreds of guys she already serviced. Took her another year before being able to leave/be released. HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 HIGH THAIED said:Hi, Was not meant to be a tear-jerker. Just my observations, and experience. HT Well sorry you missed out on Svay Pak. (K.11) Quite an amazing place while it lasted. Pedophiles killed it IMO. They got very blatant and open towards the end. I'm glad I saw it anyway because the girls in those houses were definitely indentured. They were quite up-front about it. Mum wants a new TV. Cheerful bunch too for the most part and I never saw any cuts and bruises. Cambodia's negative reputation is based mainly on Svay Pak and Toul Kork (also closed) so now NGOs and journalists are looking for new targets. The girls who hang around Martinis and Sharky's seem to be freelance...probably with a pimp in the background much like Bangkok girls. There are no go-gos to speak of so nothing like Nana Plaza. There are other places which might be described as brothels ("a house appropriated to prostitution" according to my dictionary) but there are other forums to read about them. I don't know whether the girls there are 'sex-slaves' or not or how often they get beaten up. Probably Kristoff at the NYT can tell you. He had a cup of tea in the lobby of one once. It comes back to this 'indentured' thing which Westerners have such a hard time with. Bit like sinsot. I used to be a sex slave myself come to think of it. Re. Japan, Oz, Israel etc. I'm not sure I totally buy this 'girls getting tricked into thinking they go for a proper job' stuff. Some of them maybe, but I reckon most of them know darn well what they're getting into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nervous_Dog Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 <<I'm not sure I totally buy this 'girls getting tricked intio thinking they go for a proper job' stuff. Some of them maybe, but I reckon most of them know darn well what they're getting into. >> Agree totally on the evidence I had, they knew what they were doing, ask any thai girl in a aus knock shop. more about face saving than anything else, THOUGH some are trickedd! DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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