CIA 'running secret terror jails' (in LOS too)

[limbo]

Sharp eyes.

 

Probably he meant a Russina flag, just probably.

[dean]

Sorry, I meant Russian flag. I was rushing to get to my floor sanding job. Fortunately, I hadn't gone to work yet and I did correct my post before it was frzen for eternity (I haven't yet figured out how to strap a computer to my floor sander, so I can stay on line all day, like those in an office).

[BelgianBoy]

dean said:

(I haven't yet figured out how to strap a computer to my floor sander, so I can stay on line all day, like those in an office).

I think it would be easier to tie your floorsander to your computer...... or try a PDA / I-mate and GPRS then....

 

BB

[Evel_Penivel]

The legal systems of the Western world were developed over the centuries to handle disputes between individuals in an agrarian-based society. Whether a country bases its legal system on English common law (the U.K. and its former colonies) or Roman law with Napoleonic revisions (most of continental Europe), there is generally a fair balance between the rights of an individual accused of a crime and the need of society to protect itself.

 

However, neither common law nor the Napoleonic Code have been very good when it comes to conspiracies, whether purely criminial (organized "Mafia" style gangs) or political (terrorists of all stripes). All the participants in the legal system - defense attorneys, prosecutors, police, judges and even the defendants themselves - have to play by a set of rules if the system is to work.

 

Many of the rights afforded to defendants, such as privileged attorney-client communication, are intended to facilitate the defendant's ability to prove himsdelf not guilty. That's fine for individuals who are charged with anything from shoplifting to serial killing, but mob bosses as well as al-Qaida members can play the system to further the goals of the conspiracies to which they belong. Attorneys often act as participants in the conspiracies - carrying messages back and forth between members under the guise of privilege.

 

Mob bosses have carried on business from their cells because they are able to give orders to underlings via attorneys. The attorney and translator for the "Blind Shiekh" who masterminded the first bombing of the World Trade Center transmitted a message from him in prison that resulted in the deaths of 48 tourists in Egypt.

 

Moreover, the main goal of the mob or terrorist attorneys is usually not to defend their client, but to find out how much damaging information the police and prosecutors have gathered so the "leaks can be plugged" in their groups. They especially want to reveal the identities of confidential informants.

 

The detainees at Guantanamo aren't necessarily being held with the goal of punishing them for specific crimes. They are "intelligence objects" who are being pumped for information. A few of the more notorious figures may eventually go on trial for the crimes they have committed, but the majority will be released once they prove themselves sufficiently cooperative. Cooks, drivers and other low-level personnel always have valuable information to give. Cooks know the number of meals they prepared per day, from which the number of terrorists can be deduced. Drivers know the travel patterns of the top-level terrorists for whom they drove. Even errand boys and dishwashers are a goldmine of information and more likely to talk than hardened leaders.

 

The question of whether the detainees are being tortured or not is a matter of interpretation. Certainly some are not treated gently, but if they cooperate, they get better treatment. The covert world of terrorists, spies and secret operatives runs under a special set of rules. Anyone who joins or even associates with a group whose sworn goal is to murder as many American citizens as possible should be aware there are very harsh consequences for such an idiotic decision.

[ALHOLK]

Hi!

 

both Sadam Hussein and Ben Laden were once allies of the US.

 

They were a little more than that. They bloody created them. The US has neve been interested in REAL democracy outside their own country. Remember Cao Ky in South Vietnam, he was created bu the US.

 

regards

 

ALHOLK

[Guest lazyphil]

So America has the right to dicipline their unruley students.

[Evel_Penivel]

Neither bin Laden nor Saddam Hussein were "allies" of the U.S. except in the loosest sense of the word. They certainly weren't "created" by the U.S.

Bin Laden was active in mujahideen resistance to Soviet forces, mainly as an organizer and financier through his Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK or Office of Services). There were at least seven major majahideen "parties" and 4,000 separate mujahideen groups with varying degrees of loyalty to the "bigger" parties.

The U.S. channeled money to the mujahideen through the Pakistani intelligence service, but it was the Pakistanis who decided which recipients would get what. Bin Laden broke with the MAK in 1988 and left Afghanistan. He was subsequently kicked out of Saudi Arabia and went to the Sudan, where he built al-Qaida (the base) on the model of MAK. When he was forced out of the Sudan, he found a haven in Afghanistan under the Taliban. By his own admission, he'd hated the U.S. since U.S. intervention in Lebanon in the early 1980s.

Saddam Hussein was the product of the peculiaritries of Iraqi politics. The Soviet Union had been his main backer (along with the France) through the years, but the U.S. supported him during the war with Iran.

It was another case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." That's a principle that goes back to the days of Og the Caveman and his tribe. All countries and groups have practiced it - the U.S. is neither the first nor alone in doing so.

The U.S. gave massive aid to the Soviets during WWII and gave assistance to various communist resistance group's, including Mao's forces, because they too were fighting Germany and Japan. After the war, they were regarded as enemies and West Germany and Japan became strong allies.

Not all the nations and groups which the U.S. supports are democratic, but that's true of every other country as well (and always has been).

Japan, West Germany, South Korea and Taiwan are definitely more democratic today than they were in the past and infinitely more democratic than North Korea, East Germany and mainland China ever were. The heavy U.S. presence, military and otherwise, in those four nations contributed much to their positive development. While the old South Vietnam wasn't a democracy, it wasn't worse than North Korea. In fact, it allowed more individual freedom than the North.

In some parts of the world, there aren't any good guys, only bad guys and worse guys. Just like in a horse race, the U.S. sometimes bets on the wrong nag, sometimes on the right one. It's usually a matter of pratical politics, not principles. When criticized for backing former Nicaraguan dictator Simoza, Franklin Roosevelt responded, "I know he's a son-of-a-bith, but at least he's our son-of-a-bitch."

It's the way diplomacy and internationalm relations have worked, work today and will always work.

[packy]

When Bin Laden was fighting the Soviets, The US supplied him with material to fight the soviets. If this is creating an allie, Then we are guilty. Not actually "WE" but the CIA.

 

Call them what they are, Terrorists, radical people killing off their own people. They are not human. No human kills his own without benefit. If they want to meet Allah so bad, let's him them out. Line them up. I'll put an ad in the classifed for an exterminator.

[BaronTT]

SD, not directed at you, because I agree with your views.

This comment is in general.

 

The treatment that the CIA/military are dishing out is inhumane and cruel, and directed at people that haven't been convicted of anything.

 

If you recall, about 2years ago one of the US military police guards at Gitzmo was put in prisoners garb and put in a cell, as part of a training exercise. End result is that he almost DIED from the 'normal' treatment within a few hours, as the guards somehow confuse him with a regular prisoner. They lost track of him. They treated him as just another prisoner and almost killed him. I presume that he was in fairly good physical shape, being an MP. And I doubt that the other prisoners are/were in as good of shape as he was. Incredible.

 

As far as releasing these prisoners, I don't think anyone here is advocating that. It's simply that the treatment should conform to the Geneva Convention. Simple as that.

 

Or if you son't think war time rules apply, then apply the normal US legal system.

 

There's no place for torture.

[Flashermac]

The US Constitution was actually ammended to ALLOW the effing federal government to tax our incomes. (The Supreme Court earlier had declared the income tax unconsitutional.)

 

So who were those dumb forks that voted for the ammendment to allow themselves to be taxed. Admittedly, the tax was very low at the beginning. (My dad told me the first time he paid it, it cost him around $3.25!) But the idiots should have known what would happen once they handed the keys to the bank vault to the thieves in Washington. And you want to bitch about the right to bear arms???