Kiwi Murdered in Pattaya - Disturbing Story

[Zorro]

jjsushi said:

Gadfly1 said:

Now that was a rant. And I am going to keep this short, because your hyperbole is totally off subject. That should be obvious to even the dimmest members here (well, maybe not).

 

A Farang was killed in a drive by shooting that appears to have been arranged by his BG girlfriend. A large number of Farangs appear to be dying in suspicious circumstances, and those deaths are falsely called suicides. It could happen to any of us, and that is why there has been so many posts on this subject in such a short period of time. People are interested.

 

This is what we are really talking about here. Maybe some of the victims did engage in a bit of p4p, but so what? Probably all of us here have. And that makes this a situation that could happen to any one on this board. No one deserves this simply because they have a BG girlfriend in Pattaya, happen to live there or engaged in a bit p4p. But you?re saying he had it coming.

 

You try to distance yourself from this statement by having a hypothetical co-worker say it, but it is painfully obvious that it is your voice saying ?he had it coming?. Your transparent use of a hypothetical co-worker to make this point ? rather than being honest and stating it directly - demonstrates your hypocrisy and dishonesty.

 

But you know what is really offensive: you are obviously posting all of this crap to demonstrate what a tough, street smart shrewd guy you are. It?s all about you, and it is all very childish. You?re using a very serious subject ? a guy?s murder in Pattaya ? to try to establish your bona fides as a tough and cynical street smart guy who sees things the way they really are. Quite frankly, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

Dude what are you babbling about? Once again I challenge your obtuse way of thinking and you decide to attack me personally instead of the points I challenge you with. You can't debate a single issue without the support of some periodical or statistic from an internet source. Without that you fall flat and start grabbing @ anything to avoid being viewed as a non-intelligent thinker. With me you resort to personal or defamation attacks because I place things in a perspective that completely differs from yours.

 

I provide you with an "intelligent" counter to your ridiculous solution that farangs need to keep pressure on Thailand by utilizing the internet to inform the international media that farangs are dying in Thailand @ an alarming rate and all u can do is call me a "strutting peacock"?

 

I am basically telling you that no one outside of those farangs that have a vested interest in Thailand particularly the P4P scene give a shit about what you post.

You sound quite silly with your rebuttals because you simply can't accept that your idea is foolish. The polulace of the West is really going to voice a concern and campaign for whoremongers? Dude do u realize how retarded that sounds!?!

 

Like I mentioned before if you really give a shit then why don't you form a group and use your personal and professional influence as a manager in a Thai bank with those Thais that you associate with and effect a change. Your constant crying about getting the intl media involved is just pure wishful thinking.

All the intl media is going to report is sexual foreign deviants that live with prostitutes in a seedy 3rd world country known to be a haven for criminals, pedophiles and corruption are meeting "untimely" deaths. That is the way it will get reported and your average Western reader with their moral high ground thinking will not feel a bit of sympathy for those murdered. As a matter of fact in a twisted way it may make them feel better about their own lives reading about some poor sap who died alone without friends and family @ the hands of a prostitute.

 

So how about u cut the personal attack crap and respond to the several posts of mine that state that your methods are useless and a waste of time. How about you tell the board how YOU can make a personal difference and help to solve the violence against farangs.

 

You're wrong.

 

Thailand does care if it effects its tourist trade.

Recent incidents have been highlighted in the international press which show Thailand in a negative light and this is something the tourism of authority takes seriously.

Your recent posts are purely inflammatory and i believe you are only posting them to try and wind Gadfly up and to try and boost you own sad little ego.

There have been a number of disturbing incidents over the last few years involving tourists and expats.

To paint all of these people with such a broad brush as you have done....ie they are all sexpats, deviants, losers etc is disengenuous to say the least and probably inaccurate as well.

 

Thailand has a problem with an upsurge in violent crime. Foreigners are becoming more at risk as a result of this spike in violent crime. It is certainlly a subject worthy of discussion.

[JJsushi]

Zorro said:

 

 

You're wrong.

 

Thailand does care if it effects its tourist trade.

Recent incidents have been highlighted in the international press which show Thailand in a negative light and this is something the tourism of authority takes seriously.

Your recent posts are purely inflammatory and i believe you are only posting them to try and wind Gadfly up and to try and boost you own sad little ego.

There have been a number of disturbing incidents over the last few years involving tourists and expats.

To paint all of these people with such a broad brush as you have done....ie they are all sexpats, deviants, losers etc is disengenuous to say the least and probably inaccurate as well.

 

Thailand has a problem with an upsurge in violent crime. Foreigners are becoming more at risk as a result of this spike in violent crime. It is certainlly a subject worthy of discussion.

 

Do u honestly read the crap you post? What is so inflammatory and ego boosting about what I am posting? The fact that you don't agree that I find your "intelligent" discussion " and solutions to be inane?

 

Since you claim that Thailand "CARES" so much about 'is image and there has bee na recent rash of violent crimes against tourists/expats reported in the intl press, then pray do tell what has been the Thai authorities response? Have there been curfews imposed to protect farangs? Have any recent set of draconian laws been passed intended to protect farangs such as death to any Thai found to have murdered a farang? Have farang been forced to live in protected zones that segragate them from Thais who don't carry certain official permits? HAs martial law been instituted? Where is your proof of the Thai's response to all of these violent crimes against farangs? You tell me what have Thais done to protect their image .

 

The reason why I paint all farangs with "the same brush" is simple. Any story that makes the intl media is going to carry a certain undertone that single farang men who live in places like Thailand must fit in the mold of a sexual deviant or social undesireable. The media will use that same brush. Which is why your plea that we must alert the intl media to every incident of a farang dying as a result of foul play @ the hands of someone in the nightlife is quite laughable.

 

The fact is that single MEN are dying in a place the Western world considers to be a BROTHEL; men that no one outside of their friends and family gives a shit about and a place that the world shakes it's head @ with moral judgement.

 

NEWSFLASH! No one outside of you , a bunch of whoremongers, some expats and Thailand lovers gives a shit about a bunch of farang men getting offed in the P4P scene every now and then. The intl media and Western society can care less. A foreigner getting murdered by his prostitute is not going to knock Tome Cruise and Katie Holmes having a baby off of the front page. Hell it won' even knock "Local man has 11 fingers " out of the middle of the paper.

 

I swear both of you two sound like a bunch of glue sniffers!

Do me a favor next time u post, post something factual pertaining to my counterpoints or @ least with some modicum of substance instead of thinly veiled defamatory attacks. Post something as you would say "INTELLIGENT".

 

I will restate my posiition both your and Gadfly's "intelligent" discussions and solutions are POOP. My rationale is in this and my previous posts.

[Zorro]

jjsushi said:

Zorro said:

 

 

You're wrong.

 

Thailand does care if it effects its tourist trade.

Recent incidents have been highlighted in the international press which show Thailand in a negative light and this is something the tourism of authority takes seriously.

Your recent posts are purely inflammatory and i believe you are only posting them to try and wind Gadfly up and to try and boost you own sad little ego.

There have been a number of disturbing incidents over the last few years involving tourists and expats.

To paint all of these people with such a broad brush as you have done....ie they are all sexpats, deviants, losers etc is disengenuous to say the least and probably inaccurate as well.

 

Thailand has a problem with an upsurge in violent crime. Foreigners are becoming more at risk as a result of this spike in violent crime. It is certainlly a subject worthy of discussion.

 

Do u honestly read the crap you post? What is so inflammatory and ego boosting about what I am posting? The fact that you don't agree that I find your "intelligent" discussion " and solutions to be inane?

 

Since you claim that Thailand "CARES" so much about 'is image and there has bee na recent rash of violent crimes against tourists/expats reported in the intl press, then pray do tell what has been the Thai authorities response? Have there been curfews imposed to protect farangs? Have any recent set of draconian laws been passed intended to protect farangs such as death to any Thai found to have murdered a farang? Have farang been forced to live in protected zones that segragate them from Thais who don't carry certain official permits? HAs martial law been instituted? Where is your proof of the Thai's response to all of these violent crimes against farangs? You tell me what have Thais done to protect their image .

 

The reason why I paint all farangs with "the same brush" is simple. Any story that makes the intl media is going to carry a certain undertone that single farang men who live in places like Thailand must fit in the mold of a sexual deviant or social undesireable. The media will use that same brush. Which is why your plea that we must alert the intl media to every incident of a farang dying as a result of foul play @ the hands of someone in the nightlife is quite laughable.

 

The fact is that single MEN are dying in a place the Western world considers to be a BROTHEL; men that no one outside of their friends and family gives a shit about and a place that the world shakes it's head @ with moral judgement.

 

NEWSFLASH! No one outside of you , a bunch of whoremongers, some expats and Thailand lovers gives a shit about a bunch of farang men getting offed in the P4P scene every now and then. The intl media and Western society can care less. A foreigner getting murdered by his prostitute is not going to knock Tome Cruise and Katie Holmes having a baby off of the front page. Hell it won' even knock "Local man has 11 fingers " out of the middle of the paper.

 

I swear both of you two sound like a bunch of glue sniffers!

Do me a favor next time u post, post something factual pertaining to my counterpoints or @ least with some modicum of substance instead of thinly veiled defamatory attacks. Post something as you would say "INTELLIGENT".

 

I will restate my posiition both your and Gadfly's "intelligent" discussions and solutions are POOP. My rationale is in this and my previous posts.

 

Your arguments have been well and truly addressed.

 

I am not sure who is being defamatory but a persual of your posts contain such phrases

"Do u honestly read the crap you post?"

 

"as a bunch of glue sniffers"

 

"will restate my posiition both your and Gadfly's "intelligent" discussions and solutions are POOP"

 

"NEWSFLASH! No one outside of you , a bunch of whoremongers, some expats and Thailand lovers gives a shit about a bunch of farang men getting offed in the P4P scene every now and then"

 

Who is being inflammatory and defammatory?

 

As for what are the authorities are doing?

 

Not enough imho.

However they do bolster the police presence in tourist areas as a result of adverse publicity due to increasing violence and they do have periodic crackdowns in areas where Thai criminals are known to be.

The embassies of some countries have expressed concern at the number of suspicious deaths in Pattaya and as such put some pressure on the authorities to take some action.

On a more general note the violence in Thailand is not just restricted to Pattaya and has in the past and no doubt will continue in the future to affect a more broad cross section of the community.

Your comments about guys that indulge in the P4P scene are offensive.

Maybe some guys have been naive and maybe some have even contributed to their own demise through completely reckless behaviour but any losss of life is a tragedy and has a ripple effect.

It seems you think too bad as that is the price you pay for having sex with bgs!

And heaven forbid if anyone complains because it is just another case of "som nom na".

Do nothing and say nothing and rest assured nothing will change.

[khwaimaisabai]

Hi zorro,

Actually, you are both right in different ways. The authorities should do more - but they should do more about a lot of things.

You say jj's comments aboput single males in PTY are offensive, but that is the way people in farangland see it. I am sure you have had chats with people back in farangland who know nothing of Thailand. Do you remember their general attitude, based on the reputation of Bangkok and PTY? Was it positive? Somehow I doubt it, in most cases. All the foreign press would be interested in is as jj describes.

I agree with jj on his (imho) key point - if you swim in shark infested waters, you don't deserve to have your leg bitten of - but if it happens are you really entirely blameless?

khwai

[Guest lazyphil]

web page

 

 

the mrs showed me this, click top left pic :: a pakistani man did this ::

[khwaimaisabai]

Hi phil,

Looks like a child cut up - is that what happened?

Khwai

[simie]

I agree with you on this one, no one deserves to die just because they happen to like fooling about a bit in Thailand and the police should start to investigate murders instead of just sweeping them under the carpet. But you are also right about whether the press and public back in farangland give a shit. Take two recent examples, the British guy murdered in Pattaya recently got one very small paragraph in the papers in England. The girl murdered on Samui at new year got pages and pages for days on end and extensive coverage on tv. Rightly or wrongly the simple truth of the matter is that the press and majority of the public don't give a shit if a single male is killed in a place like Pattaya. But a "respectable" female tourist is a totally different matter.

Simie.

[JJsushi]

Zorro said:

Your comments about guys that indulge in the P4P scene are offensive.

Maybe some guys have been naive and maybe some have even contributed to their own demise through completely reckless behaviour but any losss of life is a tragedy and has a ripple effect.

It seems you think too bad as that is the price you pay for having sex with bgs!

And heaven forbid if anyone complains because it is just another case of "som nom na".

Do nothing and say nothing and rest assured nothing will change.

 

 

Newsflash Einstein I am one of those single male travelers who go to thailand to indulge in many things which also includes P4P. Unlike you I do understand what the perception of the average citizen of the West (in particular America) has towards Thailand. I do know what people think of single men who go to Thailand. I don't fool myself about it. I also know the risks I assume when I engage in certain activities in certain places in LOS. Sort of common sense really. You have to know there are consequences for your actions. No one is saying people DESERVE to be murdered but I am am saying that no one should be surprised either. For u to look to the West and Thai authorities to protect u in a country known for their corruption and violation of civil rights is rather silly don't u think?

Maybe if you took matters into your own hands and actually put something into action instead of these so called "intelligent" discussions that are nothing more than a whine-fest.

 

Here are a few suggestions since you are a resident of some sort.

 

How about u and Gladfly set up a farang organization along the lines of a neighborhood watch or guardian angels. You get a bunch of volunteers , dress them in easily identifiable garb give them two way radios and whistles. Have them patrol farang areas in coordination with the local police to help protect the local population of farang. That would be an action of empowerment.

 

Here is another idea set up a suicide hotline for those farang that become distraught over their BG lovers and have a propensity to leap off of balconies.

 

Maybe you hand out leaflets @ the airport that provides the warning signs for farang to look out for during their holiday.

 

YOU live in Thailand and YOU are in the high risk profile goup. Don't YOU think that YOU should take action instead of looking for the media and Thai authorities to do it for YOU?

[buddha]

I have never been to Pattaya. I have been to just about every other province in Thailand, but never Pattaya.

 

When I state this to a Thai that is not connected to the P4P scene I can see the relief in their face. I would say that more than anywhere in Thailand Pattaya has that nasty reputation for existing solely as a P4P venue. I've never been there, and do not know if this is true, but I would say that most 'normal' people have a dim view of what Pattaya is all about.

 

If the International media were to start taking a good hard look do you think they would be publishing stuff about 'a fallen falang' or more sensational stories about 'human trafficking', 'forced prostitution', etc. etc.

 

They wouldn't have to look far to find a whole shit load of stories in Pattaya, stories they could slant anyway they wanted to sell papers. Imagine a shot of 'Insert Nanaplaza member name' on the front of the NY Times Magazine holding hands with a hottie.

 

Do you really want the international press to descend on Pattaya?

[zzzz]

Stickman said:A ladyboy came out of the shadows and said ?I go with you?. I smiled and said ?no thanks?. I?d worked perhaps two paces when the ladyboy screamed ?I kill you!? in a blood-curdling howl and started moving towards me. I bolted. I mean I really moved!

 

 

[sorry couldn't help myself]

 

I bet he says that to all the farangs