Kiwi Murdered in Pattaya - Disturbing Story

[chuckwoww]

Gadfly1 said:

 

All of these stories are disturbing, and even more disturbing, this sort of stuff is very common here. Thailand is much much more violent in this respect than most people would imagine.

 

I agree with that. All of these stories are disturbing. I just don't find the Kiwi case any more disturbing than most. I still like Pattaya but some very disturbing things seem to be happening there these days. It has a reputation for sex, booze, and moral laxity and that's why it attracts unsavoury characters, Thai and farang. No big surprise there. (This is where somebody points out that it always has attracted unsavoury characters and off we go again.)

 

I don't maintain multiple relationships anymore myself (no regrets, lessons learned) and I have no interest in steroids. Seems to me reasonable to assume that those who do, really nice guys for all I know, are more at risk than others. And I still don't see why the 'international press' should take anything that happens in Pattaya very seriously.

[Guest lazyphil]

<<LOL! If one *were* street savvy, then one would NEVER have a BG as a girlfriend nor let them in on anything personal at all. Strictly business. Face it, would you do this with a whore in farangland? Same precautions hold true here, but most guys "check their brains at the airport." >>

 

I'm not street savvy, but as yet i've not been gunned down in a drive by here or in los :: ....

[buddha]

I think chocolate steve has a nice approach -- a low profile. Not low enough to create suspicion, by all means be yourself, but nobody needs to be able to connect or even see all of the dots.

 

I don't involve myself in relationships with BG's because I cannot really understand them from a cultural perspective and why get loaded down with only one source of entertainment.

 

I make my friendship carefully.

 

I don't break the law in the LOS because of harsh penalties. Things I would do in the US without worry, e.g. smoking pot, does not even enter the equation in the LOS.

 

Seems that steve may have been doing both, and while roid rage may not exist, plain old rage certainly does and it exists across the globe in mass quantities, even in Pattaya.

 

I have no idea who is 'right' or 'wrong' in this unfortunate issue, and it looks like I never will.

[Steve]

Thanks Buddha...but that story of the random mugging/murder worries me. I know guys who flash a lot of cash and have warned them about it. When you do you never truly know if people are hangin out with you because they like you or they like your money.

 

I'm the opposite. I joke that I 'have no money' and am poor. I could care less if I'm thought of as a 'rich falang'. I don't need my ego stroked. Back in Philly all you had to do was look at the guys with the high priced cars, jewelry, $200 shoes and no jobs to know who were the major dealers. A cop doesn't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out who to target.

 

That random shooting is worrying and unfortunate but is it that common nowadays in Pattaya? Was this a one off?

 

I've (as well as others on the came train car) have been robbed on the subway back home and you're told from early on to just give up the money, no fuss. Maybe they would have shot him anyway but ther is a good chance they would have taken the money and left. Also, was he on some deserted back soi somewhere? If you're on your own it pays to be in crowds. City kids learn early that there is safety in numbers. Also, could there be the smallest possibility that his estranged girlfriend set him up? It appears random but there is enough there for my cynical mind to think that there could have been a conspiracy perhaps?

[Guest]

You still do not get it. *I* certainly am not justifing these murders.

Interesting comment, considering I never said or even suggested that you were justifying these murders. A bit touchy here, huh? Perhaps the very next sentence of your comment explains why:

But I am realistic enough to know that there is shared blame in them.

Even though no one suggested you were justifying the murders, you felt compelled to jump in and add this. What does that tell us?

[Guest]

That random shooting is worrying and unfortunate but is it that common nowadays in Pattaya? Was this a one off?

I don't know about the random shooting, but if you watch the News section here for awhile you will see that new stories are constantly reported about Farangs "jumping off" (getting pushed?) of balconies or otherwise otherwise coming to an untimely deminse in Pattaya and elsewhere in Thailand. This certainly happens alot.

 

And the circumstances are often very suspicious. The posts in that section generally have a link to or are taken from news articles. What I consider to be the classic suspicious suicide story happened in a NEP area hotel a few years back: a guy was found with his hands handcuffed behind his back to a chair and a plastic bag over his head. He suffocated an agonizing death by suffocation. The MiB ruled it a suicide; case closed.

 

The homocide rate in Thailand is alarmingly high; much higher than the homocide rate in the US. When discussing homocide rates a while back, another poster here claimed that "by any metric" (his exact words) the US was much more dangerous than Thailand. I posted links to crime statistics maintained by the US Department of Justice and the Royal Thai Police Force demonstrating that this claim was obviously not true. And, funny enough, that particular debate came to a sudden halt, and I haven't seen this claim repeated again.

 

But it is even worse than the statistics indicate. In comparison to the US, Thailand substantially under-reports murders. Thailand?s chief Forensic scientist, Khunying (a title awarded by H.M. the King for her work in this area) Dr. Pornthip, reports that, at best, the police incorrectly conclude that murders are suicides on a routine basis and don?t know how to properly investigate homicides, and at worse (and often), have covered up murders and destroyed or tampered with evidence of murders. She has also uncovered evidence of police involvement in many of murders here. Needless to say, she is not popular with police. She does, however, have tremendous credibility in the international community for her courage and the quality of her work in this area.

 

But, and keeping all of this in mind, take an occasional glance at the News Board for a month or so and draw your own conclusions.

[Zorro]

It seems we are getting back to an old argument we had about violence in LOS last year.

 

Still there seem to be posters in complete denial about the state of play in Thailand.

How much evidence do you need before you recognise that there is an inordinate number of farangs dying in Thailand under very murky circumstances. Murders, sucides, accidental deaths etc are almost daily copy.

 

Some posters believe that the victims are to some extent culpable in their own demise citing lack of street savvy, mixing with the wrong crowd, being involved with bar girls, upsetting some Thais rice bowl, low life degenerate that didn't understand the culture etc The list of excuses goes on and on .....

 

I have a news flash for these posters....However smart they think they are they should think again because as the list of excuses grows it seems to encompass just about everybody and everything.

 

Caveat emptor.

[Guest]

It seems we are getting back to an old argument we had about violence in LOS last year.

 

Still there seem to be posters in complete denial about the state of play in Thailand.

How much evidence do you need before you recognise that there is an inordinate number of farangs dying in Thailand under very murky circumstances. Murders, sucides, accidental deaths etc are almost daily copy.

 

Some posters believe that the victims are to some extent culpable in their own demise citing lack of street savvy, mixing with the wrong crowd, being involved with bar girls, upsetting some Thais rice bowl, low life degenerate that didn't understand the culture etc The list of excuses goes on and on .....

 

I have a news flash for these posters....However smart they think they are they should think again because as the list of excuses grows it seems to encompass just about everybody and everything.

You are exactly right.

 

I guess it is inevitable that a prolonged discussion of yet another murdered Farang ? this one getting a fair bit of press ? would lead back to that old argument. Fortunately, I don't think will need to re-argue relative levels of violence this time; it should be a settled issue by now (but then some people still believe the earth is flat.) ::

 

You have, however, raise an excellent point which I haven't seen raised before in our earlier discussions: "as the list of excuses grows it seems to encompass just about everybody and everything." That is a good point worth serious consideration.

[Bangkoktraveler]

Zorro's chosen words express the situation nicely. His quote is:

 

[color:"red"]"Some posters believe that the victims are to some extent culpable in their own demise citing lack of street savvy, mixing with the wrong crowd, being involved with bar girls, upsetting some Thais rice bowl, low life degenerate that didn't understand the culture etc The list of excuses goes on and on .....

 

I have a news flash for these posters....However smart they think they are they should think again because as the list of excuses grows it seems to encompass just about everybody and everything." [color:"black"]

 

Almost one year ago, I was attacked. So was another falang. The other falang turned over his money, etc. and for that received a machete shop to the top of the head and a machete cut to both sides of his neck. What did he do to contribute to this problem?

 

I would say nothing.

 

As long as people keep preaching that others are reaping what they sow, Thais will continue to attack falangs. But then, if falangs instead of 'saving face' each time a falang gets attacked, actually put pressure on the Thai government to make the country safer for tourist, the country would be a better place for every one.

[Guest]

As long as people keep preaching that others are reaping what they sow, Thais will continue to attack falangs. But then, if falangs instead of 'saving face' each time a falang gets attacked, actually put pressure on the Thai government to make the country safer for tourist, the country would be a better place for every one.

Agree 100%. And I think the best way to do this is disseminate information about this violence here as widely as possible and do our best to get it into the international news when it happens (the internet helps). But I am open to suggestion on other ways to keep up the pressure.