Kiwi Murdered in Pattaya - Disturbing Story

[Zorro]

Gadfly1 said:

As long as people keep preaching that others are reaping what they sow, Thais will continue to attack falangs. But then, if falangs instead of 'saving face' each time a falang gets attacked, actually put pressure on the Thai government to make the country safer for tourist, the country would be a better place for every one.

Agree 100%. And I think the best way to do this is disseminate information about this violence here as widely as possible and do our best to get it into the international news when it happens (the internet helps). But I am open to suggestion on other ways to keep up the pressure.

 

Yes, the apologists only contribute to the problem by refusing to confront the irrefutable evidence.

Burying ones head in the sand about the issue or making trite comments like "you can go home if you don't ike it" ease the pressure valve and ensure the issues are never really addressed.

If tourism numbers were affected enough by these sort of incidents then maybe something might be done to help minimise such incidents. This can only happen if concerted pressure is applied over a long period of time.

[chuckwoww]

Of course bona-fide tourists and retirees should be protected. But that's not the real issue here is it? Pattaya is not an ordinary tourist destination.

 

It's the old Pattaya catch-22. Can you have sleeze without sleezebags? The local police are basically keeping the lid on a messy situation. It will be a cold day in hell before the international press campaigns on behalf of bar girls, sex tourists, ya-ba users, yobs, alchoholic slobs and retired gangsters. But the UK gutter press can always squeeze in a few lines on a juicy Pattaya story.

 

The only thing that might make a difference, financially, is if the Chinese stop coming for some reason. It always amuses me BTW to see groups of Chinese tourists, with their kids, walking down Soi 8 past the bars on their way to a boat trip and an ashtray with their photograph on it.

[..]

Well, all I can say guys, if you are gonna scream like little girls, and you are by any measure, then why are you still here????

 

If the heat is too great in the kitchen, then get the fuck out!

 

Regards,

SD -- fuckin' tired of whiney little BITCHES!

[JJsushi]

Being the recepient of a violent crime is a fucked up thing but some of you guys sound like you have been living in freaking Mayberry all of your lives!

 

You hang out in bars, associate with prostitutes, associate with certain elements that are prone to using violence and you run around places where this is accepted what the hell do you think is going to happen?

 

Hello!!!! We are talking about Pattaya here! A place of extreme greed and decadence. Money talks bullshit walks. International criminals party here, the cops ARE the MAFIA! Everyone is in someone elses pocket and circle of influence. Your either going to be a pimp a ho or the meal!

 

Sorry but if you are going to party or live in the hardcore part of pattaya then you have to be aware that you are more susceptible to being a victim. It is like Rusiian roulette. Some guys can avoid trouble and some can't some are lucky and some are not. You take a risk everytime you get within a certain radius of the place. There is very little random violence outside of being a bystander or being hit by a stray bullet. If a cat gets robbed it sure as hell ain't random. What happens is that the robber says I am going to rob someone. If i see the person with something of value such as a gold chain, expensive mobile, etc then I will rob his ass. If he resists or I don't want any witnesses then I will shoot his ass. That is specific not random.

 

When you are @ home you know what places u scan hang out in and what places are dangerous to be. Why in the hell when one comes to Thailand do they think they are immune to this? Why do farangs think they have an inalienable right to be protected from violence?

 

In 10yrs of travel to Thailand I have been to Pattaya maybe 4 times. I learned from my first visit how dangerous the place was. I consider mysellf very street smart and I knew that the hustle there was not for me. The place is an island built for farang pigeons. Some pigeons get plucked and some get shot.

 

Cry all u want about safety and it being open season on farangs and the authorities should crack down, notify the intl media, blah, blah , blah but if you want the safety then your going to have to give up alot of your vices. Say goodbye to cheap sex, plentiful dope, less sleaze, payoffs and a look the other way mentality. Then some of you guys will be bitching about how Pattaya is not fun anymore. Wait until they get the casinos going then the fun will really start.

[JJsushi]

Gadfly1 said:

As long as people keep preaching that others are reaping what they sow, Thais will continue to attack falangs. But then, if falangs instead of 'saving face' each time a falang gets attacked, actually put pressure on the Thai government to make the country safer for tourist, the country would be a better place for every one.

Agree 100%. And I think the best way to do this is disseminate information about this violence here as widely as possible and do our best to get it into the international news when it happens (the internet helps). But I am open to suggestion on other ways to keep up the pressure.

 

You my friend have LOST the plot!

 

Sorry Dude but if u honestly think that this will be effective then you are EXTREMELY naive or your on some really good shit!! We are not talking about the murder of Mother Theresa, a blond haired blue eyed 8 yr old western girl or a member of the Bush Adminstration. We are talking about the murders of male western societal outcasts that shack up with prostitutes in a foreign resort area know for it's depravity.

 

Who the hell is going to Champion that?

[cardinalblue]

This thread has taken on many issues with the most prominent being:

 

1. Pattaya is not what it used to be like...

 

2. Pattaya is a sleezeball place with many sleazeballs everywhere including the visitors themselves...

 

3. Crime has risen and more importantly for falang is random crime on the rise?

 

My take is all of the above is true or partially true. Only police reports could verify or not #3. But man, how reliable are statistics in a country that has an high element of corruption in its authority establishments?

 

I personally don't like pattaya as it is probably the worst of all the tourist places to visit. It is a personality thing. Some will love pattaya until something bad happens to them. Did they bring it on themselves. More than likely, yes...

 

The odds are like something bad will not happen to you in a short visit or even living there if 1. you are cautious and 2. determined by who you hang out with or associate yourself with....

 

As to crime and being a victim, you still are much safer walking around Pattaya than any big city in america or international touist city like Rio. It amazes me that for whatever reasons considering the high density of mafia, scum, low-lives, people living on the edge, drugs, sex, alcohol consumption and institutionalized corruption, there isn't more crime there than there already is. I credit the thai culture for that...

 

But who really knows how much unreported crime is not disclosed? That is an issue into itself...

 

CB

[Old Hippie]

Funny, but I really hate(d) Pattaya as well. Last trip I went down there specifically to see Nong Tum 's comeback fight. I made the mistake of taking a girl with me (felt she had "earned" a trip out of BKK), so didn't really get into it too much.

 

But, in the process of walking around, it struck me as really over the top in being the bottom end, and catering to the lower echalon of punters...might go back alone and have a look again! Then again, I frequent low end places in the USA as well...sleaze sort of appeals to me at times...

 

Over all what bothered me the most about Pattaya was the farangs in generel, just seemed to be loud obnoxious drunken fucks who seemed to almost invite trouble... most if any problems I ever had in Thailand were in Pattaya, and usually with some euro trash yank hating loser...and once an Yank trash loser...(yeah yeah I know, "glass houses etc..." ) Most of the guys I know who have had serious problems THEY DIDN'T INVITE, happened in Pattaya...

[Zorro]

Here we go again.

 

The same old excuses for violent crime in Thailand are rehashed yet again.

It is not as bad as some US ghettoes....how many people do you know who live or go to theseghettoes?

It is not as bad as the ghettoes of Rio....well that is comforting

Pattaya is a cesspool and you should expect to be murdered, mugged or otherwise scammed, robbed or bashed because this is the price you pay for cheap sex.......no street smarts, cluessless low life farang etc

 

The thing is as we have discussed before Pattaya and indeed let's not preclude all of Thailand here has seen an upsurge of violence in the past few years and Pattaya has always been sleazy yet has not had the number of incidents it has now.

Is it moaning to discuss these issues or be concerned about them?

Should we discuss anything at all?

Should we be concerned about anything at all?

Or should we just accept everything that happens around us with a shrug and a mai pen rai?

[Guest]

Here is my take. The thread started as a reasonably intelligent discussion about the murder of a Farang and whether Thailand in general is more dangerous than visitors believe. We now see childish rants where other posters are accused of ?scream[ing] like little girls? for even having this discussion. Apparently we are not supposed to even discuss the subject.

 

To really understand what is going on and why this thread has been hijacked, you need to look at what happened in an earlier discussion on violence in Thailand. Suadum got extremely agitated because we were even discussing the subject, argued at length that Thailand is hardly violent at all, and made the starting claim that the US is much much more violent Thailand, claiming there is more criminal violence in the US than in Thailand ?by any metric.?

 

Suadum claimed he knew the facts, anyone who disagreed with him did not know squat and that we were greatly exaggerating the level of violence in Thailand because the US has much more violent crime than Thailand ?by any metric?. He figured if he made it personal, put his entire credibility behind this claim, and shouted it loud enough, no one would dare challenge him.

 

Unfortunately for suadum information on this subject is readily available on the internet. And it was easy to prove that suadum?s claim that the US more violence than Thailand ?by any metric? ? like so many other things we hear ? was a load of crap.

 

Now, because that line of argument proved to be an embarrassment to suadum, he calls anyone who disagrees with him or even discusses violence in Thailand ?whiny little girls.? Unable to support his position on the merits, we see the discussion dragged down to this level. The new thread (?I?m sick of whiners?) is part of this deterioration.

 

And then, of course, the peacocks strut in, using this as an opportunity to posture and pose in some vain effort to prove their street smarts (to a bunch guys in cyberspace ? why?) Even though jjsushi has only been to Pattaya ?maybe 4 times?, he has already got it all figured out. When you have street smarts, facts don?t matter; you don?t even need to know what you are talking about. Just talk tough, and never mind that this discussion involves more than Pattaya; it is really about all of Thailand.

 

And when you?re earlier claims have proven to be bull shit, it is easier and safer to simply scream ?get the fuck out!? than intelligently discuss the issue. If you discuss the matter intelligently, someone might call you when make up facts out of thin air, and, as suadum has learned, that is embarrassing.

 

Now notice who is where in this debate. The ones who strut, shout ?get the fuck out?, and make claims that are demonstrably false, are visitors or have only been here a short time. The posters that we all know have been her for quite a long time are at odds with this group of poseurs. They know this is a serious issue for all of Thailand, and that neither Thailand nor its residents benefit when this subject is swept under the table with shouts of ?get the fuck out.? Perhaps we should ask the poseurs to leave; their certainly doing more harm than good with their childish rants and posturing.

[Stickman]

I go down to Pattaya maybe twice a month on average and stay an average 1-2 nights. On the Beach Road I have seen more and more dodgy looking characters. Funnily enough this coincides with reports of increased muggings and even murders down there, or in the nearby areas.

 

A couple of trips back, perhaps a month or so ago, I was walking along the Beach Road late at night. (It was the last time I did it and am not sure if I would do it alone again, especially at that late hour.) A ladyboy came out of the shadows and said ?I go with you?. I smiled and said ?no thanks?. I?d worked perhaps two paces when the ladyboy screamed ?I kill you!? in a blood-curdling howl and started moving towards me. I bolted. I mean I really moved!

 

Going on reports in the press and what my own eyes see, I feel that Pattaya is a place where you have to make more precautions than other parts of Thailand, and for sure, you need to be more aware there than you needed to be in the past.

 

I remember Nightmarch, the Pattaya columnist, wrote a year or so ago that the girls felt Pattaya was much more dangerous then that it had been ? and that they would seldom wear their gold out in public for fear of them being attacked and the gold stolen.

 

Pattaya is not as safe as it once was.