Kiwi Murdered in Pattaya - Disturbing Story

[limbo]

Know a few Westerners in Thailand who own guns.

Some with license some without.

Sofar their respective houses haven't been burglared.

[Old Hippie]

I would think if someone knew tyhey had an unregistered gun in the home, some one might be inclined to break in and steal it...of course when no one is home...

[limbo]

They're not actually shouting out loud they have unregistered guns at home, despite the fact they told me.

[Guest]

Concerning Thailand I wonder if the image as a paradise for tourists has been damaged in the recent years, or if it hasn't changed:

While SARS and the Tsunami affected several countries there were specific occurrences which had been reported internationally:

- Unrest in the South

- Rape of the Brit girl on Koh Samui

- Thailand isn't a party zone anymore (early closings, drug tests, eg., see big article in the N.Y. times)

- murderers or deaths (mostly only reported in the news of the affected home countries, like the recent murderer of the OZ guy or the drownings of Chinese)

 

And as it was said before, the reports on Internet forums like np.com.

I wonder what's reported about LOS at travel forums like the Lonely Planet forum?

I wonder too.

 

The internet is a very effective means of disseminating information. Something that is discussed in on one board or in one blog or ezine will get picked up in others.

 

In the case of Thailand, it is deserved and, IMHO, a good thing that this news does get out there. There are too many dubious suicides here; too many guys falling off balconies in Pattaya or getting knocked off in cold blooded drive by assassinations where a BG ?girlfriend?, quite conveniently, benefits financially, quite significantly.

 

Thailand has a high homocide rate, farangs are not immune, and it would surprising if this sort of information didn?t get disseminated across the internet or in a foreign newspapers when a visitor from that foreign country is the subject of a cold blooded hit.

[robaus]

I wouldn?t dream of visiting HK for sanuk, because it costs about 10 times as much as it does in Pattaya? hotels, booze and birds.

I wouldn?t even dream of going to Bangkok for sanuk. Give me Pattaya any day?. but we?ve had that debate many times before on this forum.

 

I have been visiting Pattaya for some 15 years, and have lived here for the last 6 years. Nothing violent has ever happened to me or my many ex pat mates in all that time, and we hit the bars and fleshpots 5 or 6 nights a week, 52 weeks a year.

 

Just use your common sense, when you?re here, as you would in your home city. Criminals are opportunists the world over. Try not to give them the opportunity.

 

Maybe it?s just local knowledge that has kept us out of harm?s way, so here are a few local knowledge tips.

 

Don?t wander alone along dimly lit, thinly frequented parts of the beachside of Beach Rd late at night - take a taxi or motorbike.

 

Don?t wander alone along dimly lit, thinly frequented streets if your hotel is off the beaten track somewhere - take a taxi or motorbike.

 

Don?t be abusive to katoys. If you see any approaching you ? keep your hand on wallet, smile, say ?mai aow krab?, and walk determinedly past them.

 

Watch out for pickpockets on baht taxis (happened to me once ? half my own stupid fault). They operate as a team. If someone is sitting unusually close to you, and/or you?re being distracted by pretty looks and conversation, keep your hand on your wallet. I sit, if I can, next to the entrance, with only one side exposed to other passengers.

 

Use a wallet with a small chain attached to your belt loop.

Only take out as much as you need for the night. Leave credit cards, main funds, and passport in hotel safe.

 

Have important passport pages photo reduced and laminated as a makeshift ID card. (Technically you?re supposed to carry your passport, but that?s better than getting the real one stolen.)

 

Don?t flash your money around, and don?t wear heavy gold chains (sad fact of life, but to an impoverished local it?s like wearing a necklace made up of 80 * 1,000 baht notes, just begging to be snatched ? you wouldn?t wander around New York, London or Sydney at night with $2,000 sticking out of your top pocket instead of a carnation for decoration would you?)

 

Don?t go looking for trouble with arsehole farangs? you can find them anywhere in the world. Pre-empt trouble. Move away, if they are drunk, noisy, and abusive.

 

Walk unobtrusively away from all arguments ? farang and Thai. You don?t have to be macho to win? and you save on hospital bills and a night in the monkey house too.

 

Treat the girls well, but that need not prevent you from negotiating the price beforehand, so that there are no arguments later. They?re working girls after all. Don?t be shy or coyly gallant. Just ask nicely, ?How much for pay bar? [i already know the answer anyway, but it puts the girl in a lets do business mode, and you into a bargaining position while you still hold all the chips] then move onto, how much for lady short time?

If the vibes are good in the bar, she?ll probably be good in the bedroom.

Tip the girl well, if she has given good service. Unless the experience was absolutely lousy, I always tip at least the taxi fare home. If she does a ST runner when you wanted LT or is a starfish, put it down to experience and get over it. There?ll be a pleasant surprise with the next barfine... she?ll be turning naked cartwheels and hanging from the chandeliers for deeper penetration! :hubba:

 

Don?t sweat the small stuff ? don?t argue with the taxi driver over 5 baht.

 

If you get into a baht taxi that isn?t already moving en route, then fix the price for your door to door service beforehand, don?t argue about it later.

 

If you live close to a regular baht taxi route, or an inexpensive motorbike taxi ride away, and you don?t want to explore outside of Pattaya, then don?t hire a motorbike?. You?ll have trouble parking it, the hassles of locks chains and helmets, the danger of other maniac drivers, and you can?t drink and drive. Transport is so cheap in Pattaya. Let others have the worries.

 

Don?t loan money to the girls unless you?re willing to treat it as a gift.

Don?t get involved with the girls unless you want to. Don?t lead them up the garden path, unless you make them aware that you have no intention of long term (tell her?been there, seen it, divorced it, ?hab broken heart?). The longer she stays in your room, the harder it is to get her out of your life. You?ve become her employer and bank; she won?t take kindly to redundancy without reasonable severance pay. Don?t be selfish? give her a chance of happiness with another punter who IS looking for a relationship.

 

Don?t leap off tall buildings, if you break up with your girlfriend. Pattaya?s the best place in the world to overcome the temporary madness of ?lurve?? there are 9,999 willing replacements.

 

Don?t leap off tall buildings, if you run out of money. Most of us have passports that Thais would give their left tit or testicle to own. 6 months work and save in farangland, can pay for 12 mths sanuk in Pattaya.

 

Stay away from drugs. You could end up on extended stay in the monkey house, or with delusions of ability to leap off tall buildings.

 

Maybe Pattaya, Bangkok, Thailand and the whole world are becoming more dangerous places. A depressing thought ? what can I do about it? leap off a tall building?

 

If you want to live life prophylactically, then try Smallville, Iowa or Useless Loop, Western Australia. Just think - you could be enjoying bingo sessions down at the Darby and Joan Club, with a chance of a legover with one of the blue rinse set!

 

You may not live any longer?. but it will just seem that way!

 

[dddave]

Great list, should be copied and posted on the door of every Pattaya hotel room.

[Zorro]

Quite a good list.

 

Maybe this should be on all tourist brochures to Pattaya

[..]

Bravo Robus! Common sense is not so common, is it? That is the living example of the point I constantly try to make about personal responsibility (and with which some posters here try to argue with me on). Well done. Thanks! Jing jing!

 

Maybe KS can pin that post to the top for those who need reminding. Seriously. It could save lives.

 

Cheers,

SD

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"Maybe KS can pin that post to the top for those who need reminding."

 

Done. I've copied it into a new thread - 'Travel safety tips' - and stuck it at the top of the GD forum.

 

Sanuk!

[Guest]

I think this is a good idea, but here is another for your consideration: to provide context to that post lisiting safety measures, add the original post - or just the text quoted from Stickman - as a sticky post just before the safety tips post. This will provide context; it will explain why this is an issue.

 

To be fair, you should probably also add "The incident reported aboved has been reported on other sites [link to Stickman site], but not verified. For a lively discussion on this isssue, please go to [link to the Kiwi murder thread]. A list of proposed safety tips follow this post." This way readers both get the information and the context, and they can draw their own conclusions.

 

One final comment: I think the discussion started off with good information on an interesting discussion, and then splintered into several different threads where it went seriously off the tracks. It got personal with posters trading barbs and insults with each other, and when that happened we all lost the plot (I include myself in this to some extent). Many of us went a bit too far and said things that perhaps they shouldn't have (again, I include myself in this), and that got us even further away from the main point here - the existence of violence against Farangs and how best to reduce the risks.

 

I think a sticky post along the line suggested above is sufficient. I am going to take a break from all of these posts so that perhaps everyone can simmer down. I suspect other events will come up in the future where this topic will raise it's ugly head, and I think I have learned a few few things about how to better discuss this very serious issue and I have learned a few things to avoid. (For example: try to avoid speculation about other poster's motives, even when I am absolutely convinced I have have them pegged - I may (or may not be right), but those comments seem to immediately push the comments off subject and make it too personal.)