Kiwi Murdered in Pattaya - Disturbing Story

[Zorro]

"Newsflash Einstein I am one of those single male travelers who go to thailand to indulge in many things which also includes P4P. Unlike you I do understand what the perception of the average citizen of the West (in particular America) has towards Thailand. I do know what people think of single men who go to Thailand. I don't fool myself about it. I also know the risks I assume when I engage in certain activities in certain places in LOS. Sort of common sense really. You have to know there are consequences for your actions. No one is saying people DESERVE to be murdered but I am am saying that no one should be surprised either. For u to look to the West and Thai authorities to protect u in a country known for their corruption and violation of civil rights is rather silly don't u think?"

 

This discussion has never been about how people in the west may or may not view Thailand and single men who come here. It is about the increasing amount of violence directed towards farangs in general and not just those you deem to be sex tourists. The OPs posts was about a hit in Pattaya involving an ex bargirl and a Kiwi but what is more important than this particular incident is that these things seem to be happening more frequently and affecting tourists from a broad background not just Pattaya.

The violence has not reached a level yet where i would consider not coming but there is obviously a point where if levels of violence continue to escalate I and others would consider other countries.

 

 

"How about u and Gladfly set up a farang organization along the lines of a neighborhood watch or guardian angels. You get a bunch of volunteers , dress them in easily identifiable garb give them two way radios and whistles. Have them patrol farang areas in coordination with the local police to help protect the local population of farang. That would be an action of empowerment."

 

This already exists with the police volunteers in Pattaya.

They patrol Walking Street and try to assist as a go between the Thai police and farangs.

 

"YOU live in Thailand and YOU are in the high risk profile goup. Don't YOU think that YOU should take action instead of looking for the media and Thai authorities to do it for YOU? "

 

I don't actually live in Thailand but i do spend a few months each year here in between contracts.

[Zorro]

chuckwoww said:

Old Hippie said:

I seriously doubt any media attention would make any difference at all...look at all the info on lies and scams on the internet, and still guys get sucked in...

 

One born every minute they say OH. I think most of them head to Pattaya.

 

Yes , but how many people have been saved by the knowledge that they gained via the internet.

Sure there are still suckers out there but knowledge is power and there is no doubt that knowledge and publicity about these sort of scams enters the public arena and educates people and thus soe people will by that knowledge be able to avoid be scammed.

[jxxxl]

Old Hippie said:

I seriously doubt any media attention would make any difference at all...look at all the info on lies and scams on the internet, and still guys get sucked in...

 

OH, do you think the number of young female backpackers travelling to Thailand is unchanged since several young women have been raped and murdered in Chiang Mai and Samui? Word of this gets out easily in the media (e.g., internet) and definitely has an influence.

 

Thailand's reputation is already bad enough, throw in an increase in violence and some people will stop coming; they don't care what city it happens in. And, the people who are likely to stop coming are precisely the people who TAT are trying to attract i.e., NOT the sex and package tourists.

 

So, if your primary interst is cheap whores and booze, then there is a bright side to all this violence.

[chuckwoww]

Zorro said:

chuckwoww said:

 

One born every minute they say OH. I think most of them head to Pattaya.

 

Yes , but how many people have been saved by the knowledge that they gained via the internet.

Sure there are still suckers out there but knowledge is power and there is no doubt that knowledge and publicity about these sort of scams enters the public arena and educates people and thus soe people will by that knowledge be able to avoid be scammed.

 

How many have been saved? I haven't a clue. I thought we were talking about the ones who get in trouble. I expect the internet has helped a lot of people but it seems to have made others even more reckless. I don't think the internet is a major factor in the 'crime in Pattaya equation'.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Chuck,

 

I dunno. I think many newbies, and old hands as well, have learned things here that helped them over the years in certain situations. I think some reading here take these warnings and the knowledge they gain here and use it to their advantage at times. I don't know how much it has helped but I think it does help, and on the net the news is much more current at times than all other places you could eventually find this information. We have guys coming right from a bar and posting the information of one thing or another almost immediately. Guys report all the time things that happen to them while they are in Thailand. Sometimes within minutes after it has happened. One good thing about Thailand is the internet cafes almost everywhere. How much has the net helped? I couldn't say. But has it helped? I think so.

 

Cent

[chuckwoww]

Sorry Cent is there a disagreement here? You did read my post right? Did somebody blame the internet for the fact that suckers are born every minute? CW

[Central Scrutinizer]

Chuck,

 

Not a disagreement, just posting what I think on this. (I've been at the computer all day! And getting tired.) I think maybe it was the last line that caught my eye somewhat. "I don't think the internet is a major factor in the 'crime in Pattaya equation'" Not a major factor, but I think it helps some make decisions, i.e. whether to go there, if they do where to maybe avoid, what floor to stay on in their hotel, avoiding Beach Road late if they are alone, take a Bahtbus rather than walking when they are sloshed. Small things like that I think. Nothing major, as you say, but it might at least be having an impact on the guys here who read this stuff and it sticks in their heads. And then, there are the suckers born every minute who do it all anyway, thereby negating any small positive impact that may have been gained. :: No disagreement, just rambling on tiredly while drinking a cold Chang before logging off.

 

Cent

 

p.s. When are you back anyway?

[chuckwoww]

No problem. I just woke up myself and the last thing I need is a convoluted NP argument full of all the usual misunderstandings.

 

Re: "I don't think the internet is a major factor in the 'crime in Pattaya equation'"

 

Maybe I didn't phrase that very well. It wasn't intended as a criticism of the internet which I think is wonderful (What would we do without it ?). I just think the internet is only a bit player in all this. If we agree that crime is on the increase in Pattaya I would think it has more to do with the increase in the number of unsavoury characters (Thai and farang) who find their way there...plus all the usual pitfalls and sandtraps. I'm sure the internet has made some people more careful but I don't see it as a major factor. I doubt if the Thai gangsters, for instance, who go round shooting people even use it very much.

 

I think Zorro's point was that more information can be helpful. Nobody said it can't. I did say the international press doesn't give a damn about a few sex tourists getting murdered in Pattaya.

 

Enjoy your Chang. cheers CW

[Guest]

I dunno. I think many newbies, and old hands as well, have learned things here that helped them over the years in certain situations. I think some reading here take these warnings and the knowledge they gain here and use it to their advantage at times. I don't know how much it has helped but I think it does help, and on the net the news is much more current at times than all other places you could eventually find this information. We have guys coming right from a bar and posting the information of one thing or another almost immediately. Guys report all the time things that happen to them while they are in Thailand. Sometimes within minutes after it has happened. One good thing about Thailand is the internet cafes almost everywhere. How much has the net helped? I couldn't say. But has it helped? I think so.

This is an excellent point. I am only sorry I didn?t make this point earlier on. A few comments before I part this site for a long weekend.

 

1. Cent is exactly right: ?newbies, and old hands as well, have learned things here that helped them over the years in certain situations.? I know I have learned plenty.

 

2. This news doesn?t need to make the front page of the New York Times. No one ever claimed it has to or would. But there is a salutary effect to the extent that it makes the press, particularly the press outside of Thailand, and it is doing exactly that. My suggestion was very modest. Are we going to change Thailand overnight; of course not. Did we ever claim that we thought we could?

 

3. We are talking here about the murder of Farangs in Thailand. Some of those murders are perpetrated by greedy BGs. Let's be honest; don?t many of us here have more than a few things in common with these murder victims. Why then is so much blame being heaped on the victims?

 

4. Related to point no. 3, and perhaps a bit inflammatory, but have you noticed the gymnastics that are employed to say, in some guise, that the victims had it coming? And it is always by the same posters who hold themselves out as smarter, more street savvy than everyone else. This is not a coincidence. Doesn?t this just smack of phony cynical tough guy posturing? We?re talking about murder here ? murder of people who very much like many of the people on this board, and these guys are using those murders as a platform to strut about and brag about how sharp they are (in comparison to who? It is never stated directly, but we all know the answer to that question: the victims. And that is what I find so appalling about this group.) I think the epithet ?poseur? is too kind for this sort.

 

5. Finally some posters have the gall to suggest, in a variety of guises, that this whole discussion is illegitimate ? that it is nothing more than a bunch of girls whining. Pause for a moment and consider that before you pack your bags to make that next trip to Thailand. The name of this site is nanaplaza.com and most of its members are Farangs who visit and spend times in places like Nana Plaza or Pattaya. Is it at all surprising that we are concerned about and discussing the alarming number of Frangs who are murdered when they - like us - visit and spend time in places like Nana Plaza and Pattaya?

 

Cent, thank you for getting this back on track and introducing a dose of commonsense into this discussion. And on that positive note, I am taking a break from this site for the long weekend.

[Nervous_Dog]

I met with some TAT people today for work and suggested that they need to get some good PR out there.

 

They where stunnedd - what - people think Thailand is unsafe?

 

I didn;t bother arguing

 

DOG