Middle East crisis.

[chuckwoww]

It looks like the Israelis want to try to get some bargaining chips because they know they'll have to cut a deal sooner or later. Too bad so many people had to die to get to this point.

[Evel_Penivel]

Why didn't the Lebanese armed Forces kick Hezbollah out of southern Lebanon or at least disarm it? Hezbollah is religious militia whose goal is to drive the Jews into the sea, then force the conversion of Lebanon's Christians.

 

It is a tragedy, though. By an odd quirk of fate, Lebanon was one of the first foreign countries I visited. I was there in 1969 and it was a wonderful place. Muslims and Christians lived in harmony. Equally important, the pious and conservative religious types co-existed with the modern and secular majority of the population. Parts of Beirut were as avant garde as any of the hip enclaves you'd see in U.S. or European cities at the time. But Black September and the Iranian Revolution put an end to all that. After getting kicked out of Jordan, the Palestinians tried to take over Lebanon and the result was a bloody civil war, followed by 13 years of Syrian occupation. If Lebanon had only controlled Hezbollah, the country would be well on the way to recovery now.

 

[chuckwoww]

"Hezbollah is religious militia whose goal is to drive the Jews into the sea, then force the conversion of Lebanon's Christians."

 

Do you have any evidence for that? I thought the armed militia was only one element of Hezbullah. When have they said they want to force Jews into the sea or convert Lebanese Christians?

[Nervous_Dog]

With you on that Fidel

[..]

I thought the armed militia was only one element of Hezbullah. When have they said they want to force Jews into the sea or convert Lebanese Christians?

 

Agreed. Hesbollah now has morphed into an organzation much like the IRA, seeking to use politics & social works as a means to an end, but still willing to fight for what they want.

 

Simplistically, note how things were shit in Ireland until the Brits finally accepted this and treated the IRA like politicans.

 

I just do not see much, if any, difference here (outside of Israelis being far more hard-headed than Brits).

 

So Evel, I'll ask again: If an occupying army could not get rid of them in 18 years when that was their only mission, how can how do you expect a) a few weeks of bombing civilians to do it; or a weak, but democratic government can do the same?

 

And recall, Hesbollah has some democratically elected power. Or are you one of these Neo-Con types that only believe in democracy when the unwashed masses pick who you want to be in power?

 

Regards,

SD

 

[Ckrisg]

The comparison with the IRA is weak, they turned to politics because the Brits would never give in to there demands, despite the numerous bombs. The Brits were as hard headed and ruthless as the Israels if not more.

 

The IRA is and always was a criminal organisation masquerding as a Cause, they never achieved there supposed goal of a united Ireland.

 

 

[Fidel]

Hi McBif. Hold the Israelis to higher standards? That's a laugh!

[Fidel]

I've been drawing comparisons between the Irish situation and the Mid-East situation latley too.

 

In fact, I believe that Hamas is the Sinn Fein of Palestine, so to speak. What hapened when they were democratically elected? The US and Israel made it explicit that their plan was to "starve" the Palestinians until life was so unbearably miserable that they would overthrow the Hamas government.

 

Lovely, a new type of democracy, "Starvation Democracy". You can vote for whoever you want but if you don't vote for who we want you too we'll starve you to death. Very nice indeed.

 

The election of Hamas will do the Palestinians good in the long term. They're much more likely to achieve a better deal for the Palestinians than Fatah and they are also less corrupt.

 

By the way. The armed struggle carried out by the IRA was necessary. We may not have a united Ireland but we are closer to having equal rights and opportunities for Catholics and Protestants and a proper, fair judicial and policing system.

 

Makes a big difference to the days when Catholics didn't have the vote, lived five families to a house, (While single Protestants got their own homes), and had an unemployment rate 2.5 times that of Protestants. That's what the Republican movement was struggling against. The Brits can never claim to have had the high moral ground when they were propping up an apartheid state with a "Protestant Parliament for a Protestant People".

 

Its victory enough to have achieved peace and some kind of possibility of having a democracy in place for a change. Oh, and who knows? Maybe people will decide that a United Ireland makes more sense after all.

[..]

Fidel, it is good to know from a real Irishman that I read the situation correctly. I am an Irishman who has never been to Ireland, but try to keep up on things and history.

 

Regards,

SD

[Ckrisg]

That Suadum has to be the funniest post ever an Irishman who has never been to Ireland but who read the situation right.

 

The IRA were murdering scum who never gave a dam about equal righths for anyone other than themselves.