Media bias

[Fidel]

Yeah, I've read about the five Israelis.

 

I don't want to turn this into a 9/11 conspiracy thread but I prefer the "Magic Passport" story.

 

"In less than a week came another find, two blocks away from the twin towers, in the shape of Atta's passport. We had all seen the blizzard of paper rain down from the towers, but the idea that Atta's passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged would have tested the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI's crackdown on terrorism."

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/september11/story/0,11209,669961,00.html

 

 

[Evel_Penivel]

Whoa, Fidel! You really do take The Protocols of the Elders of Zion seriously, don't you? I'll never forget being handed copies of the Protocols by government officials in both Saudi and Egypt during the 1970's, with the explanation Americans needed to know what the Jews were doing to the world.

Idi Amin, one of the Muslim world's foremost thinkers and statesmen - maybe the best they've ever produced - was a big believer in the Zionist conspiracy as well. He wanted to put up a statue to Hitler, but the Russians persuaded him not to.

 

Even you, Fidel, you have to love Team Israel for the beautifully executed Entebbe Raid. That's the kind of action we don't see enough of these days.

 

Go Team Israel! Go Hebrew Hammers! Second down and only a few miles left to the Litani River.

 

Evil

 

[Fidel]

You keep referring to "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". Why not give me a link? Sounds like a good read!

 

BTW, I never mentioned a Jewish conspiracy theory... I just mentioned Atta's passport.

 

Is "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" about magic passports?

[pasathai1]

What was it, 21 terrorists found in this plot. wonder if there were more "cells" with the same back up plan. we shall see

[Evel_Penivel]

Fidel:

 

Happy to oblige! But I think you're being too modest. By the tone of your posts, it seems you, like several others active in this thread, are well acquainted with the Protocols, or at least the underlying ideology. Here's the link to the full translation:

 

Protocols

 

Here's an essay explaining its background and how it's used in the Arab world today:

 

Essay

 

Finally, to illustrate how the Protocols are used by Muslim organizations, here's an exert from Article 32 of the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas). You know, the guys who run the Palestinian Authority these days:

 

"World Zionism, together with imperialistic powers, try through a studied plan and an intelligent strategy to remove one Arab state after another from the circle of struggle against Zionism, in order to have it finally face the Palestinian people only. Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of the struggle, through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. They are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements and to bring them outside the circle of struggle.

 

The Islamic Resistance Movement calls on Arab and Islamic nations to take up the line of serious and persevering action to prevent the success of this horrendous plan, to warn the people of the danger eminating from leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism. Today it is Palestine, tomorrow it will be one country or another. The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on.

Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" ("Brutukulat Hukama Sahyun" in the Arabic original), and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

 

The full text of the Hamas Covenant can be found at:

 

HAMAS Covenant 1988

 

 

For those of you who can't be bothered to follow links, here's an exert from the essay linked above:

 

After World War II and the attendant Holocaust, the Protocols ceased being part of the popular conscience in Europe in the United States. However, with the birth of the State of Israel and the eruption of the Arab-Israeli conflict, they became part of state-sponsored

antisemitism throught the Arab world.

Antisemitic ideas had already been spread by Christian missionaries in the Middle East since the early 19th century. This activity erupted in the Damascus blood libel in 1840, which was followed by many recurrences of the libel in other Arab countries in the latter half of the 19th century.

European antisemitic works were already being published in Cairo in Arabic before the turn

of the century. The Protocols were translated into Arabic from the French edition by al-Khuri Antun Yamin, probably in the late 1920's.

Many editions appeared starting in the 1950's, mostly in Cairo and Beirut.

 

President Nasser publicly asserted their authenticity, and his brother, Shawqi Abd' al-Nasir, published an edition in 1968 entitled

"Brutukulat Hukama Sahyun wa-Ta`alim at-Talmud" ("Protocols of the Learned Men of Zion and Teachings of the Talmud"). In the same year,

an Islamic congress which convened in Cairo produced some papers containing antisemitic themes which had been rampant in prewar Europe.

Unlike its counterpart in Europe, antisemitism in the Arab world seems to be officially sanctioned and promoted. It forms part of religious

sermons and appears to be part of public education.

 

The Protocols today form part of the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood and its allied Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), whose part in the Palestinian intifada is well known. The statement that the "enemies" or the "Zionist invasion" are behind "secret societies" such as the "Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others" around the world for purposes of sabotage is repeated three times in the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Mention of these

organizations, together with the claim that the "enemies" were "behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about", reveals direct borrowing from the Protocols and its predecessors. The Protocols are finally

mentioned by name in Article 32:

 

... The Zionist plan is limitless. After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will

have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" ("Brutukulat Hukama Sahyun" in the Arabic

original), and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.

 

 

In summary, use of the Protocols by modern day Arabs is living testimony to the transplanting of classical European antisemitism into present-day Arab society.

 

 

Evil

[Old Hippie]

".... By the tone of your posts, it seems you, like several others active in this thread, are well acquainted with the Protocols, or at least the underlying ideology..."

 

 

Care to name who they are? PT me if you like. I suspect you have a bias, and that you might also be wrong in at least one of your conclusions...

 

[chuckwoww]

You're certainly wrong if you're including me in that bit of innuendo.

 

I tried reading the 'Protocols' once many years ago and quickly got bored with it.

 

Ditto 'Mein Kampf'.

[McBif]

Dunno if many guys have seen this short film' date=' "Pallywood" about how shootings and riots etc. are often scripted and staged for an all too eager Big Media. Quite interesting.

 

Pallywood

 

 

This is amazing stuff. Sometimes they really do get shot and sometimes they fake it for the media. Damn they are devious. I'm starting to think those pesky Arabs will use any trick in the book.

 

 

I don't understand your statement. It's perhaps witty or clever or tiresome or something, but I quite sincerely don't understand it...

 

If evidence emerged of the Israelis faking deaths and documents and photos etc. would you write something like: "Ooh! Those Jews are so cunning. What WILL they think of next? Tee hee!"

 

I don't think you would. Right? And why not?

[Evel_Penivel]

".... By the tone of your posts, it seems you, like several others active in this thread, are well acquainted with the Protocols, or at least the underlying ideology..."

 

 

Care to name who they are? PT me if you like. I suspect you have a bias, and that you might also be wrong in at least one of your conclusions...

 

No, I wouldn't care to name them. But if the shoe fits... Just hope it doesn't pinch too much.

 

Do I have a bias? Definitely. I believe Israel has the right to exist behind secure borders as a homeland to the world's Jews. There are five million Israelis facing 300 million Arabs and 1.3 billion Muslims. Israel is about the size of New Jersey. It's one promille of all the territory Arabs control, it's a promille or a promille of the territory Muslims control worldwide.

 

To speak of Israel as a threat to either Arabs or Islam is absurd. More than absurd. Its absurdity times infinity.

 

And it's equally absurd to express sympathy, understanding, solidarity, whatever, with groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, al-Qaida, Islamic Jihad, and many others. The mistake that Fidel and others make to give these movements some sort of revolutionary sheen - Che Guevara on a camel, waving the Quran instead of The Communist Manifesto. (I wrote that before, have to repeat it because it is apt).

 

Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaida all have a religious-based agenda. Politically, they are closest to fascism in both ideology and organization. The Muslim Brotherhood, the granddaddy of all Islamic terrorist organization, was directly modeled on the German and Italian fascist parties.

 

For al-Qaida, the goal is the restoration of the caliphate as a step in forcing the conversion of all non-believers to Islam. Hezbollah wants to establish an Islamic republic in Lebanon and drive out or force the conversion of "non-Islamic elements," i.e., Christians. Hamas is a bit more circumspect in declaring its goals other than the destruction of Israel, but the first article of its Covenant is: "The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps."

 

In Article 25, Hamas states: "The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

'The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews. (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).'"

 

The slogan of the Hamas, as related in Article Eight, is : "Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Koran its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes."

 

That doesn't sound like much of a basis for a democratic and pluralistic society.

 

The solution is easy. Arabs and Muslims should recognize Israel and live in peace with it. Disarm all the private and religious militias that attack Israel. All that's lacking is the will to carry it out because Muslims are blinded by their age-old hatred of the Jews.

 

Yes, it's true that about 600,000 Palestinians get the short end of the stick. Their leaders backed the Nazis in WWII and they, like Bulgarians, Romanians, Hungarians and millions of others whose governments backed the losing side, had to suffer.

 

But wasn't a huge sacrifice that would have been required back in 1948. The Palestinians who didn't want to remain under Israeli control (and about 20% did and are Israeli citizens today) could have moved between one and 75 miles to live in their own country. Or they could have chosen to live with people in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, etc. who were linguistically, culturally, religiously, etc. identical to them.

 

Palestinians were offered a homeland in 1947 but the Arab League rejected it. Over the past 60 years, Arabs have fought three wars and conducted many military engagements in any attempt to push the Jews into the sea. It's not going to happen. The secular-minded Arabs have to bring the Islamists under control. That's the other way to achieve a lasting peace.

 

Evil

 

 

 

[chuckwoww]

 

The solution is easy. Arabs and Muslims should recognize Israel and live in peace with it. Disarm all the private and religious militias that attack Israel. All that's lacking is the will to carry it out because Muslims are blinded by their age-old hatred of the Jews.

 

 

I'm not sure how you can say 'the solution is easy' in one sentence and expect the Arabs to submit to the Jews in the next. You seem to have quite a good understanding of how Middle Eastern people think but if you expect Hamas, Hezbullah and Al Quaida to just roll over you are living in a fantasy. And no 'moderate' Arab regime is going to disarm them for you.

 

There are only two ways out of this impasse. A fair negotiated solution which seems next to impossible (the Arab League has suggested a return to the 67 borders would be acceptable, but without any guarantees that Israel would agree to) or more kick ass politics which is what we are seeing now.