WorldFun Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Freedom is all relative & subjective too, but I guess we have to follow the democratic meaning of freedom such as freedom of speech, freely elected government without corruption vote buying, money power etc. Oh by the way which country would adhere to that high standard? None probably Anyways kingdom's such as the European one I was born in seem to have the slightly bit more fairness feel to it that if the ruling power gets way out of line there's always this last instance of the monarchy stepping in with their opinion just like happenens in Thailand more often than not & during the latest coup without doubt! For sure I feel 'free' to do mostly whatever I want while in my home country as long as I'm following the rules, but its a major royal pain in the ass that most shops are forced to close every fucking Sunday due to the freakin bible stuff! Most minor things are also regulated & enforced down to tiny details thus interfering with personal freedom. Still it's not as bad as say Singapore although even that place has major advantages for most people as they manage to at least provide decent value housing to most every citizen & resident with it's heavenly regulated property market In LOS I'm yet to be resident so hardly qualified to comment, but still I will of course due to the nature of free speech on this very board I relate deeply to JS OP on the instant availability of food, fun & fuck all to the moneyed visitor or resident. One thing I'll never get though is the LOS residents, citizen's or even tourists etc. who constantly complain how bad it is there, but seem unable to move or visit somewhere better? Grass always greener effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Hi, "One thing I'll never get though is the LOS residents, citizen's or even tourists etc. who constantly complain how bad it is there, but seem unable to move or visit somewhere better?" Funny, just talked to one of my friends about this. I think a lot of people think the complaining is because the complainer does not like the country, while I think that often the complaining may be born out of love for the country and a frustration that certain things are so fucked up and a serious detriment to the development of the country. Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun004 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 . In the OP, Junglesoup opens a crucial topic, worth careful thought for men thinking about visiting or coming to stay in Thailand. I would say with hands up that Thailand is more free then the USA. We live in both countries. We have a house in each country, but since 9/11 I have to say being free can be found more in Thailand then in the USA. That can change. For Western men, with a bit of money to spend, everything I've observed agrees with that comment from Bangkoktraveler. Thailand offers very high, individual freedom when compared to our home countries. Official government institutions here do not offer much liberty based on rule of law. But, for Western men, it is easy to stay out of their clutches. Most men coming to Thailand probably say they are coming for the entertainment. But, fundamental to that, is the freedom to be entertained here. Hundreds of thousands of Western men come here for enjoyment and relaxation, rather than stay at home in Oz, or NZ, or Canada, or UK or USA. Why? Many places have nice beaches and cheap beer. Many places have lots of available women: Brazil, Columbia, Philippines, most of the Carribean, even Canada has legal prostitution. Thailand is actually a long and costly flight from our Western countries. So, for an American man, why travel all the way to Thailand, when he could just go over the Northern border of an evening. From everything I can see, the answer to that is the quiet freedom that Thai culture offers. Thais are gossipy, yes, but they don't interfere with others. And, here, the police and "state" are conspicuous by their absence, too. For personal freedom, I'll take Thailand any time, over any of the other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_numbers Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 WSJ's economic freedom poll says Hong Kong is number one, which is for the thirteenth year in a row I know it is not the home country vs. thailand comparison, but in my mind true freedom is tied to economics. It always has been and will be, which is why the discussion of wealth, poverty, and business laws here is pertinent. I won't even get into the megalomaniac led paranoid culture of the West nowadays.... I'll take Thailand over that anyday... errrr... unless this junta gets a little more "junta-like". Cheers, theNumbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun004 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 ... in my mind true freedom is tied to economics. It always has been and will be, which is why the discussion of wealth, poverty, and business laws here is pertinent. Good point. And true not just in the mind of the_numbers, but everywhere else, too. Without exception, in every country that scores high on freedom, the vast majority of people are prosperous. And, also without exception, in countries not free , the general populace is very poor. But just o say, "true freedom is tied to economics" is not the whole story. More accurate is to think in terms of cause and effect, "If you wish to reap wealth, you must first plant freedom". (That's in the long run, of course. In the short run, theft can garner temporary wealth, and war can cause temporary poverty.) With declining freedom comes declining wealth: Reduced freedom = increased poverty. Easy to see that trend starting right now in the UK, USA, and Brazil. For the most stark example, at an advanced state, look at Cuba. Why would any government intentionally go in that direction? Because that's what governments do, if they can get away with it. The compelling goal of all governments, in all places, at all times, is to maintain and, if possible, increase its own power. The only way to do that is at the expense of freedom for its subjects/citizens. Alas, the future of Thailand is easy to predict. As it is with The UK and The States. Less freedom is certain to bring less wealth for most people. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bust Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Freedom is a pretty long bow to draw. A country is said to be free or possess freedom when it is run by leader or a government elected by the people. Freedom is the opprotunity to own your own destiny, within the limits of reason and morality. If that was the case, then we should have the power to make our own priorities and to act upon them accordingly. However, freedom has to be balanced with order. But freedom also is about religious beliefs and the opportunity to express your faith without risk of persecution. It also is about financial freedom where everyone has the opporunity to provide a decent standard of living for themselves and their family. Freedom of speach where you don't risk arrest for expressing your views or opinions and there is also freedom to receive basic human rights. So in an thorough definition of freedom I would say you would be struggling to find any country completely free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitagawn Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Well the USA "freedoms" are diminishing rapidly as we all know thanks to the Bush factor,his "war on terrorism" etc etc and I won't start in... Americans have quite a bit verbal freedom through the press,demonstrations etc etc However the legislative majority is more and more subjected to big business corruption. As the planet gets smaller and natural resources more difficlut to attain and control my sense is it will all become "less free" so to speak.Just my 2cents as an a social artist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jitagawn Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Da numbers said... "I'll take Thailand over that anyday... errrr... unless this junta gets a little more "junta-like"." So true so true it could get very weird indeed but my Thai friends dot seem to be worried...yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian2 Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Money is definitely a big part of it. Try living in Thailand on 50 baht a day and see how free you feel. As usually you put you're finger right on it Chuck. While I'm not in the 50B a day class, when I walked out out of the divorce court I had a year of absolute freedom, I just got on a plane and flew where I wanted to go, girls waited anxiously in every country for my arrival. Now a lot of the money is still there but it is in the form of a house, a car and a wife.... chains around the ankles of a once free man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Yeah well I don't know about putting my finger on it. The OP wasn't really talking about money. I think there is more freedom in Thailand, the Thais are quite relaxed and tolerant and there aren't the petty restrictions we have to live with in the West. But being free in Thailand is no fun without money for sure. As for your situation Julian....you should have known better. If you are complaining and I'm not sure you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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