CNN Scolds Michael Moore

[soongmak]

For instance, one of the other "panelists" on the show quickly spit out the names of foreign celebrities and government officials who have come to the U.S. to receive various treatments. Then asked Moore who of any note has gone to Cuba for treatment (other than those who could not go to a non-communist country).

 

I could name one: Diego Armando Maradona. On the other hand I don't know any celebrity who went to the States, not disputing the fact that there obviously will be many. That doesn't mean the overall health care system works. It just means the best health care is available to those who have access to serious money.

 

About Moore's slip ups, I'm sure there are many. The fact that the States was 37th in health Care instead of 39th, It doesn't take away that is a pretty piss poor situation for the richest country in the world. Also the fact that he quoted a 2006 health report stating a longer life expectancy for Cubans than for Americans, instead of the 2007 statistic, doesn't mean he lied. It was true at the time.

 

I don't believe CNN is completely unbiased in this, beause these slip ups are hardly enogh to discredit him on the whole. All IMO, off course.

 

 

[soongmak]

OH,

 

Dental work is not covered by insurance. Most policies have ridiculous cover, like pay â?¬200/year, get 50% of your actual costs paid, with maximum cover being â?¬400. That means, if I only have dental work every other year, insurance will never save me a penny. It's not worth the hassle.

 

One thing our system takes care of in a better way, is that health care will never mean bankruptcy. If I have to pay â?¬150,000 for open heart surgery, it is covered. I only have to pay â?¬500 a year extra to the before mentioned costs.

 

 

[foreigner]

much of the problem is corporate.

 

a moore trailer shows republicans celebrating the SS drug deal. celebrating congressmen are pictured with the amount they took from big pharm .. several republican congressmen received over $1/2m donation / bribe from pharm.

 

the shrub has stated if the big pharm position is changed by the dims he will veto.

bush received almost $2m from pharm

 

the republican backed SS deal made negotiating for bulk pharm prices not possble.

the VA can negotiate & gets favorable pricing

 

campaign finance reform is necessary to end congress's vote sale.

the people vote but corporations determine policy with $$s.

 

when tobacco legislation was on the floor last year republican leader boehner was on the floor passing out tobacco checks.

again, while congress was actually voting on tobacco legislation the majority leader was passing out tobacco bribes! n-f'n-credible

[foreigner]

CNN has backed off almost all of Gupta's accusations:

 

As we dug deep to uncover the numbers, we found surprisingly few inaccuracies in the film. In fact, most pundits or health-care experts we spoke to spent more time on errors of omission rather than disputing the actual claims in the film.

 

18,000 people do die each year mainly because they are less likely to receive screening and preventive care for chronic diseases.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko.fact.check/index.html?iref=newssearch

 

from the cnn site's response to moore's scream of [color:red]GUPTA[/color]:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/07/15/moore.gupta/index.html?iref=newssearch

 

in the United States, 24 percent of the population did not get medical care due to cost. That number is 5 percent in Canada and 3 percent in the UK

 

CNN has aired hours and hours of health care related reporting. Topics included: lack of insurance, under-insurance, quality of care, access to care,

 

problems with drugs and inappropriate ties between drug companies and lawmakers.

 

Just this week, CNN aired a second investigative piece on hospitals that dump homeless patients onto Los Angeles' skid row.

 

CNN had said that in the film Moore reported Cuba spends $25 per person for health care when the film actually reported that number to be $251. We regret that mistake.

 

"Sicko" Film clip: "The United States slipped to No. 37 in the world's healthcare systems..."

 

Gupta: "It's true. Thirty-seven is the ranking according to the World Health Organization's latest data on 191 countries. It's based on general health level,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David99UK]

Always been kinda amazed at the American attitude to Healthcare - in this part of the world the NHS IS inefficient, overstaffed, mismanaged, and they also do ration care (even if they do not call it that)and I shudder to think how much of my taxes it costs me every year......would I be better off with private health care, Yes! (in both terms of £££'s and speed of treatment), but I would never want the NHS to stop......

 

Why? because it is my Health Insurance for when I am no longer cheap / profitable to insure privately and I do not mind paying for other people, because others will be paying for me when my time comes......if I don't give up waiting and go private

 

I recall that the NHS had more Employees than the old Soviet Army. Makes me proud to be British

 

Who in the US came up with the quote "If we hadn't spent all that money on Tanks and Guns we never used we would just have wasted it all on Healthcare" ???

[cavanami]

With the USA being #1 for having the most lawyers, I don't expect anything to change.

 

M. Moore can make all the movies he wants, but not a damn thins will change, except M. Moore will increase the size of his bank account.

 

I would like to see M. Moore invest some of the $$$ he is making to support political canidates for next year's elections!!!

 

M. Moore, put your $$$ where your mouth (movie) is!!!

[..]

...For instance, one of the other "panelists" on the show quickly spit out the names of foreign celebrities and government officials who have come to the U.S. to receive various treatments...

Typical right winger missing the point. Yes, the US healthcare system is the best in the world if you have the 100s of 1,000s of dollars to take full advantage of it.

 

The problem is that most of the country cannot afford to take advantage of it. That's the disgrace. And we pay through the nose for what crappy insurance we can find. Yet the righties claim that universal healthcare is too expensive. Well, let's do the math. Let's call an average middle class as an income of twice the GDP/capita (raw numbers), taken from NationMaster.

 

That makes the USA middle class $66,000/year, taxed at a rate of 25%. Using my own health insurance for a family of four in the US, which is not great ($2500/person deductible, 80/20 payment), costs $1,120/month or $13,440/year. So that's 20% of the average middle class income.

 

Off to Australia. Their middle class would be US$38,427 or using last year's average exchange rate from oanda.com, AU$50,994. They would be in the 30% tax bracket. The difference is 5%, obviously. So the universal health care (plus all the other great social programs Oz has) costs less than what I pay for only very average healthcare coverage in the US. Over US$10K/year less (and that is not counting any of the 20% co-pay or deductibles that would be due should anyone get sick).

 

I'll throw in the UK for fun. US$48,937 or 26,554 quid is their middle class. The tax rate on that income is 22% -- LESS THAN THE USA.

 

So Hugh, what's your point? The US system is an expensive disgrace. Plain and simple.

 

Furthermore, I believe it was "TheCorinthian" who bitched about Moore not being unbiased. Why should he? He is not dishonest and tells you his methodology upfront. This bit is probably the best explanation I've read of why Moore is needed:

 

[color:blue]All of Moore's documentaries operate on the idea that they are correctives to everything we're told on a daily basis. See, Moore doesn't need to have "balance," which we only think of now in the Fox-ian sense. His films are the balance. A truly balanced news media would have reported most of the things in Fahrenheit 9/11 prior to the war. MSNBC would be tracking down illegal gun dealers, in addition to setting up online child predators, and instead of airing constant one-hour "specials" about this or that murder. Every day, General Motors, the NRA (and its congressional lackeys), and the Bush administration spin to us with impunity. We've been fed bullshit mythos and propaganda long enough, Moore's films say, now, how about the other side of the story.

 

Moore explicitly tells you that aspect of his approach. He tells you what the opposing sides have been saying, and then he mocks them and shows you how they're at best ingenuous lapdogs, at worst sickening liars. And for the people who Moore really wants to see his films - that'd be people who don't regularly check their Americablog or Media Matters - he's going to say what he has to say as simply as possible. He ain't an Al Gore-type wonk. He's a storyteller, knowing that stories, whether they are his own as surrogate "Everyman," a construction that Bill O'Reilly gets to pretend to every day, or of others, form a basis for beliefs. And that's the way to get the message to the masses.

 

So, sure, for Sicko, the good members of the media and we oh-so-knowledgeable citizens of Blogsylvania can say that Moore "doesn't show the other side" of his health care manifesto, or that there's not enough nuance. The Rude Pundit wanted Moore to go into one of the ghettos outside Paris to see what people there think of the French health care system, comparing the treatment of our poorest (which he shows) with the treatment of their poorest (which he doesn't). And, sure, Moore could have interviewed people who are dissatisfied with the Canadian health care system, but, Christ, we have heard that before. And, yeah, we know there's lots of bad shit that goes down in Cuba, but can there not be things that are done right? Fuck, imagine how good the Cuban health care system would be if the United States government would stop being such assholes about the country.[/color]

 

As I always say to those who defend the US system and shit on the UK/AU/CA etc systems: Ask the next Canadian (or Ozzie or Brit) you see if they would trade their healthcare system for the US's. Just be sure he hasn't taken a drink of his tasty beverage beforehand or you'll be showered in it LOL!

 

Regards,

SD

[bibblies]

I recall that the NHS had more Employees than the old Soviet Army. Makes me proud to be British

 

Not me.

 

I'm not proud to have money taken from me and a good proportion of it wasted inefficiently on people who, frankly, don't take care of themselves and then expect me to pay for their own induced bad health. The NHS inculcates a feeling of irresponsibility for one's own health. You see huge fatties stuffing their faces with burgers. Why not? Someone else will fix them. Big smoker? Big drinker? Never do any exercise? Don't worry, you'll be fixed at someone else's expense. Fuck 'em. I don't ming paying for genuine innocent illness but some fuckers take the biscuit.

 

Here's a relevant link - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/5232628.stm (talking about what Britain and the rest of the world can learn from Cuba's medical system)

 

"Tony Blair gave a speech in Nottingham. His subject was the worrying state of Britain's health, and its drain on our national funds. Crudely put, the PM's message was that the NHS could simply not afford the cost of treating people afflicted by obesity, alcohol abuse, smoking and general bad living.

 

By way of an example, he cited diabetes: "Ten per cent of NHS resources today are used to treat diabetes. By 2010 the estimate is that this could double... and it's avoidable. Three quarters of diabetics are Type 2 diabetics, and two thirds of them have a disease which could be preventable with exercise, diet and more healthy choices."

 

... it goes on to note that a lot of Cuba's success is because of preventative measures (not to mention rationing, which gives them a more rounded diet than the typical lazy Brit).

[bibblies]

As I always say to those who defend the US system and shit on the UK/AU/CA etc systems: Ask the next Canadian (or Ozzie or Brit) you see if they would trade their healthcare system for the US's. Just be sure he hasn't taken a drink of his tasty beverage beforehand or you'll be showered in it LOL!

I'm a Brit who hasn't had a drink for 12 hours and I'd be willing to give it a try at least. Our state-run system is massively inefficient. As my BBC link above implies, there's no easy way of paying for all this care and people should start taking better care of themselves to try to prevent illness.

 

The main trouble with you Yanks is your propensity to sue at the drop of a hat. That fucks up your costs.

 

[Fidel]

I just watched Sicko, and it is brilliant, if disturbing. Particularly poignant was the CC-TV footage of the disorientated, elderly woman who had been dumped from a car outside a homeless shelter when she couldn't pay her bills.

 

The people at the center said 50 such patients had been dumped there so far. In fact, another patient with broken ribs, unhealed stitches in her head and face and other injuries had also been dumped there.

 

I was not surprised to learn from industry insiders that the insurance companies employ entire departments to scour through health insurace claims and medical histories to ensure that no pay out is made.

 

Also, the footage of the woman admitting that she, in her position as a physician working for an insurance company, had denied people health care, leading to their deaths, and was rewarded professionally and financially for doing so, was very telling.

 

I always fail to understand why people are afraid of "social" measures. One day Bibblies, God forbid, you might actually come down with some condition not covered by your insurance, and end up like some of the people in Moore's documentary, working beyond the age of 79 just to keep your health coverage, or declaring bankruptcy and moving into your daughter's storage room because you can no longer afford to pay for your medication.

 

That shit is scary.

 

Interesting that today the 9/11 rescuers have filed a lawsuit demanding the release of funds set aside for their medical care.

 

Something like 80 million has already been spent... TO COVER LEGAL FEES FOR LAWYERS WHO ARE PREVENTING THE VICTIMS FROM GETTING ACCESS TO CARE!

 

NOT ONE victim has received compensation yet... and they are slowly dying.

 

And this is the system the US is trying to push on the rest of the world... F**K the Rich.