Torneyboy Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Very...lucky they all got out ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Usual failures are poor or nonexistent maintenance. The Chinese (and Taiwanese) will run things into the ground and then complain after they break...I lived/ worked in Taiwan for three years and it was a constant battle to get the Taiwanese to maintain equipment. They expect lifetime (free) warranty without doing any maintenance on their part! Thus...airplanes catch on fire...just my guess-e-mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torneyboy Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Time will tell.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Not really a surprise, probability of failure is far higher on Start up and Shut Down than at base load, I have "damaged" enough GT's in my life to realise the critical period. Now we add on to the China defective products...airplanes blowing up and catching on fire! Cavanami, I am surprised at this comment considering your knowledge of GT's, it was either a GE RB-211 Aero derivative or a P&W, both American products, but (bad) maintenance was probably a significant factor. Without being party to the facts I diagnose fuel line failure on depressurisation of the Fuel header, or maybe Old Hippie has be sabatoging the aircraft of a competative superpower nation. No no, not involved here! Not sure of the GE motor, the PW possibility might be the V2500, which is a piece of shit PW is somehow involved with. Also possible is a CFM 56, which is a very good motor. We build them for Air China, not sure what planes they put them on. My immediate guess would be a ruptured fuel line in the pylon, ignited by poorly insulated wires, and or a fire from poorly insulated/worn wires igniting a fuel leak. COuld also be F.O.D. caused, but not likely. Hard to believe it burned for an hour and only broke in half...as in, surprised it didn't explode, and burn completely. I have bitched about this before, and others have as well, but a lot of these foreign maintaince centers and airlines, as well as low cost carriers here just cut maintainance to the bare minimum and then push that passed the maximum limits...not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ongchaiyai Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 Nah.......someone smoking in the toilet for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samak Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 and today another problem for China Airlines: Emergency landing in Japan as they run out of fuel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekong Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 Initial reports are pointing finger towards a fuel line failure, as per my initial synopsis, but I still stand by my analysis that it was a failure in a fitting rather than the actual line itself. Looking at the SOE (Sequence of Events) a Gas Turbine operated without incident during full load conditions (flight) where the fuel header pressure was at "Normal Operating". Upon landing when reverse thrust is applied the GT is fired at MAX, the airflow through the engine is reversed via exhaust dampers not the impeller rotation. During Taxiing there is still significant pressure in the fuel header but once the engine is shutdown header pressure drops and a compression fitting let loose, hence the reason failure occurred on the apron during turbine shutdown and depressurisation. Being one of the few TUV certified Engineers in this world it is my job to analyise failures based on the known/preceived facts and even more so to prevent them happening in the future. My Synopsis Compression fitting failure during depressurisation of fuel header when shutting down engine(s) thus allowing fuel to leak onto a surface at e temperature higher than the fuel's AIT (Automatic Ignition Temperature). My Call, but I doubt we will ever know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 [coor:red]"and today another problem for China Airlines: Emergency landing in Japan as they run out of fuel!"[/color] Doesn't shit happen in groups of 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Initial reports are pointing finger towards a fuel line failure, as per my initial synopsis, but I still stand by my analysis that it was a failure in a fitting rather than the actual line itself. Looking at the SOE (Sequence of Events) a Gas Turbine operated without incident during full load conditions (flight) where the fuel header pressure was at "Normal Operating". Upon landing when reverse thrust is applied the GT is fired at MAX, the airflow through the engine is reversed via exhaust dampers not the impeller rotation. During Taxiing there is still significant pressure in the fuel header but once the engine is shutdown header pressure drops and a compression fitting let loose, hence the reason failure occurred on the apron during turbine shutdown and depressurisation. Being one of the few TUV certified Engineers in this world it is my job to analyise failures based on the known/preceived facts and even more so to prevent them happening in the future. My Synopsis Compression fitting failure during depressurisation of fuel header when shutting down engine(s) thus allowing fuel to leak onto a surface at e temperature higher than the fuel's AIT (Automatic Ignition Temperature). My Call, but I doubt we will ever know Good call. Many, maybe most fuel fires occur when a fitting works lose (safety wire breaks, nut vibrate lose etc) and fuel hits a hot area, and ignites. Some pilots/airlines shoot fuel into the engine on shut down as a way to cool the engine faster, and supposedly reduce problems restarting. Not sure about that engine, or the practices this airline uses. Other fire cause are lines that wear through due to vibration, and or wire bundles that also wear through. poor maintaince also contributes to this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 They were CFM engines. Mekong's theory sounds about right given this info: After the aircraft arrived at the parking spot, two mechanics on the ground spotted fuel leaking from the right engine and notified the captain, who was still in the cockpit, the ministry said. He then stalled the troubled engine and engaged a lever for spraying extinguishing agent into it. [...] The commission suspects that a pipe to pump fuel into the engine broke down after landing and that the leaked fuel caught fire due to the heat of the engine. Commission officials said that no fuel was found spilled in the tracks of the plane along the runway or apron, and that the pilot knew nothing of the leak until being alerted by a mechanic on the ground as the plane's instruments showed no abnormal readings. Link Cheers, SD -- Loves CAL hosties, frequently drinks with them at Queen's Park Hotel bar in BKK, but would never fly in one of their airplanes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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