Hardy641 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 OK, so lets see if I get this right - you two want to see the Thai people, and the Thai economy, suffer because apathy, ignorance and corruption are widespread in the LOS ? You want to see many of the people that we cross paths with daily unemployed and miserable, because their leaders are arseholes and they dont have the ability (or will) to fix any of that ? Gobble Please read my post carefully. I never said I want to see them suffer. All I said I donâ??t pity them because they elected this band of robbers to be their government. Thus, they deserve it. I someone does not wat to listen, he has to learn it the hardway. Again I am not happy at all that this happens but it is the way the world. I had countless small talks (you get into deeper discussions with any anyway) about politics with hundreds of ordinary Thai people and the responses why they love Thaksin have been mind-blowing. He thinks fast, he acts fast, he is so rich so he must be good. He cares about poor people. He fights corruption. About the death in the war of drugs they responded this is not true or Thaksin knows who is good or bad. I cpuld go on and on with ridiculous responses I got why they love Thaksin. This country had a coup, 3 months before the general election TRT had been dissolved and its executive banned for 5 years from politics. They had a unique chance to get back on the right track. Still a majority voted for Thaksinâ??s nominee Samak despite knowing he is absolutely unfit for the post of PM. They completely have blown it! They again fall for the sweet lies and propaganda they have fallen for under Thaksin. They learned nothing. The last 16 months have been a total waste. So why should I sympathize with them? Would you have sympathized with Germans, if they would have reelected the NSDAP in 1949 and get burned again? I doubt it. I am doing here business for over 12 years and ou can believe me I rather would like to see a prospering economy, amendments to the FBA attracting more FDI, a long overdue education reform and strict as well as enforced laws to curb corruption. But I guess I will have to wait another 12 years. Hopefully it won't be too late for Thailand because globalization does give a shit about Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Munchmaster Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 .... They had a unique chance to get back on the right track. Still a majority voted for Thaksinâ??s nominee Samak despite knowing he is absolutely unfit for the post of PM.... A bit like the Philipinos voting for Estrada because he was a film star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 You don;t think economy strengthened between 97 and 07? Not being silly! - I often wonder WHY the price of housing went up so much - why KL is cheaper for hotels than Bangkok etc. As for why they re-elected TRT (PPP) it stuns e the arrogance of the opposition here. They actually believed the election was theirs on a platter - and it was - if only they got off their arses and out of Bangkok to campaign. Education Reform - I can count on one hand the number of politician's I know who really want it. This really is a feudal society - to assume otherwise is waiting for failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardy641 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Well the economy picked up again in 1999 after the 1997 crash - no argue on this - mainly due to more transparency and reforms introduced by the Chuan government. If Chuan would have stayed in power, I am sure Thailand would have a much stronger economy and fewer problems today. Unfortunately, the majority of Thai people were impatient and wanted everything,now. Subsequently they have fallen for the propaganda and populist schemes of Thaksin. I donâ??t say everything he implemented has been bad but most schemes were just meant to ensure votes (Village fund and 30THB healthcare). The healthcare scheme sounds great but indeed is a total failure as only few can use it and still it is not sustainable. Just recently there has been an article about an alarming lack of physicians in government hospitals because of low wages compared to private hospitals paying that donâ??t partake on the scheme. A typical Thai proposal to resolve the issue has been to charge foreigners 30% more on medical bills. TIT The raise in property and real-estate was first logical after the tremendous plunges in value assets took in 1997. Thaksin further accelerated it with cheap credits and allowing government employees to get hand on their pensions, if buying property or real estate. The boom however was short-lived as the prices stagnated after peaking in 2005 and now are falling again. A friend of mine has bought a condominium just before the crash in 1997, he now has just recovered the price he paid in Thai Baht, in Euro he still has lost significantly. So I donâ??t see a real boom. Actually, I expect a sharp fall in real-estate prices. Too many condos are under construction right now, many already with significant delays. Increasing construction cost (coz of the China/India construction boom) caused the prices to increase drastically not higher local demand or shortage. It will be interested to see who will buy all this expensive luxury condos with sqm prices of 90 â?? 100K THB once they are finished (if ever). Your comment on the Democrat arrogance is true. Thatâ??s why I said I donâ??t pity all Thais, not the ones who voted for PPP, not the Bangkok elite who voted for the Democrats but arrogantly has been looking down on the poor majority and not the big group who knew Thaksin and Samak are dreadful but just said we donâ??t care and donâ??t vote. All contributed their share to the current mess. If Thailand want to take the next step, a radical education reform is absolutely crucial. Otherwise they will fall hopelessly back in the international race of globalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hardy agree with 90% of what you say - 120% on education reform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Me too CTO. See, we are not so far apart on the issues. Cheers, SD -- loving China for the 125 yuan bottle (B480) of 2005 Mouton Cadet Claret I'm drinking now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 30 baht health care...the tee rak says you try to get that and you will be dead! Not the best health care...IHO (In Her Opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Good post. I continue to be amazed at people's bitterness about Thailand. I loved the comment that we should boycott Thailand just like was done to South Africa during the Apartheid era. This is because of perceived prejudice against farangs? "And thirdly, I think we should apply to countries like Thailand the same socio-economical-politica l pressure we put on South Africa." Last week my "Thai" wife got her Italian citizenship (already had PR, got it from day 1), at the small ceremony the prefect asked us how we felt, "an idiot" was my reply. She didn't know Thailand granted me fuck all for being married to one of its citizens apart from the "right" to get 1 year NON-IMMIGRANT visas after showing an income of 5 times the 2008 average Thai wage. If I were the father of Thai citizens I wouldn't get even that! I told her I can't own land and houses, can't get PR nor citizenship, can't work most jobs, nearly always have to pay more than the Thais, am not equal to them in the courts and before the police and so on and on... Also told her that if I were a woman and was married to a Thai man I would have a bit of a less hard time getting citizenship since men and women aren't equal in Thailand... FUCK Thailand and countries like Thailand! And... khun_khon_neua and gobbledonk, it's thanks to people like you that the Thais pull this shit on us. Not that I really want it to change, to be honest... It's largely because of its very xenophobia, racism, classism and sexism that Thailand is and will remain for the foreseeable future the great, inexpensive boozing and whoring playground that it is. For living "normal", safe and healthy lives there already is the West, which, in fact, is where I returned as soon as I got married and decided to give the "normal, safe, healthy family life" a go... P.S. The great irony is that the people like you (whom I call the smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists brigade) who feel the need to "defend" Thailand and the Thais from perceived "attacks" like mine don't realize that it's through addressing the issues that I point out that Thailand and the Thais would actually progress and better their condition... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobbledonk Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 The great irony is that the people like you (whom I call the smiling blind daydreaming Thai apologists brigade) who feel the need to "defend" Thailand and the Thais from perceived "attacks" like mine don't realize that it's through addressing the issues that I point out that Thailand and the Thais would actually progress and better their condition.. Ah, Figjam, I can see this thread being closed sometime soon, as its so easy for this to degenerate into a flame war. I acknowledge that hardy, CTO and yourself have a much better understanding of Thailand's economy than I am ever likely to have, but do any of you believe you would be better off trying to run a business in China ? Gangbuster economy, the envy of many, but hurdles aplenty. I dont apologise for the Thai 'mindset', but I do have some compassion for the folk at the bottom of the pile. They may not apply a whole lot of critical thought to the antics of folk like Thaksin, but is this really so different to the huge number of Americans who continue to support 'my country, right or wrong' ? Make a (failed) good ole boy from Texas 'President' and mothers send their sons to die in a country that many of them couldn't have identified on a map before Desert Storm. That's in a country which prides itself on being a 'democracy', not one which has a thin veneer of 'democracy' over something entirely more ancient. If I go to Canberra with a few folk and some placards to protest a government decision, they might have a few cops to keep me company, but they arent likely to have tanks in the streets. Questioning the status quo has a price in Thailand, whether its Thaksin (or the generals, or ..) muzzling the press or bodies in the streets : that might have some impact on Average Somchai. This is a feudal society - I just happen to spend a lot more time around the serfs than the landed gentry. Same-same Oz, for that matter. I haven't spent enough time here to hate Thailand the way that you do - I hope and pray that I never do. PS in my limited experience of Thailand and its politics, I havent seen any evidence to suggest that they listen to anything from outside the borders of the Kingdom. 'Addressing the issues' assumes that there are 'issues' to be addressed, and that very Xenophobia you mention effectively nixes that. The first words out of Thaksins mouth whenever an ABC journo got him in a sticky spot in an interview a few years back were 'You dont understand Thailand', followed by a smirk that would have looked great on a villain in a Bond movie. The man's arrogance was mind-boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted June 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Nice take GD. As I said in the past. Thailand is not the eldorado, especially if you are there only for the women. Thailand is a second world country. But If one hates so much Thailand for any reason, good or bad, then why do you stay there or keep going there? I lost 120K bht one day to a greedy dishonest landlord. I just lost my heart to a Thai woman. Still, I will travel to Thailand to get laid. This thread was about Thai economy: Fine, we all have our opinions on this matter (some are more knowledgeable than others about economical subjects) but I feel that Thais are xenophobic enough so that we do not start to do the same as them nope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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