Bye bye GM/Chrysler/Ford??

[chuckwoww]

I just can't fathom why we as a nation are embracing third world wage structures as being good for us. When Henry Ford took stock of his business he realized he couldn't make much money selling a few cars to the rich.

 

Management and shareholders would probably say it's a question of staying competitive. Henry didn't have to compete with cheap foreign imports.

 

[rogueyam]

Reams and reams of politics on this thread and on the "Outrage" thread, yet so little economics. The Big 3 are firms that exist in order to sell products in a marketplace. They are losing money. They will eventually either become profitable or cease to exist.

 

I was previously asked for my economic plan so I gave it. In response there was the usual huffing and puffing by our resident self-described "geniuses" but virtually no engagement on economic grounds.

 

Hand-waving bullshit can get a guy elected, but governing requires decisionmaking. There is no limit to how far down our economy can be driven if our leftist "leaders" continue to respond to economic issues and constraints with purely political rhetoric and actions. (Look at Zimbabwe for a perfect example of how unproductive leftism can render a resource-rich country.)

 

I will repost my offering of economic sanity and wisdom in hopes that people tired of fraudulent recriminations will start to address the real economic issues facing the West:

 

My solution, as always, is private enterprise and hard work. Slash federal income tax rates. Reduce or eliminate corporate taxes and taxes on returns on investment. Cut federal government spending drastically (including farm subsidies, federal transportation funds, federal education spending, all earmarks, etc.). Ditch the CAFE standards on cars. Streamline or eliminate regulatory restrictions on new oil refineries and new energy exploration. License new nuclear power plants. Eliminate all "alternative fuels" subsidies (e.g. the ethanol boondoggle). Eliminate import tariffs on sugar and all other industry-specific protectionism. Absolutely eliminate all taxes, subsidies, and mandates intended to reduce "greenhouse gas" emissions.

 

I posit that the above will work and is, in fact, the only thing that can work. If the Bamboozler follows through on his plans for "stimulus" (e.g. borrowing and spending) and "Green New Deal" chicanery (see for example the work of his new chief "science" advisor, John Holdren), then we could succeed in transforming a period of recession and regulatory failure into a full-blown depression. I would prefer to avoid that as I am still interested in earning money.

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

Glad to see you are so sure of yourself rogie.

 

By the way, have you ever run a business? Have you ever run a business that also manufacturers?

 

 

[kamui]

(Look at Zimbabwe for a perfect example of how unproductive leftism can render a resource-rich country.)

 

Again and again I am surprised how much bullshit one man can write. There is nothing more to say to this.

 

I will repost my offering of economic sanity and wisdom in hopes that people tired of fraudulent recriminations will start to address the real economic issues facing the West:

 

My solution, as always, is private enterprise and hard work. Slash federal income tax rates. Reduce or eliminate corporate taxes and taxes on returns on investment. Cut federal government spending drastically (including farm subsidies, federal transportation funds, federal education spending, all earmarks, etc.). Ditch the CAFE standards on cars. Streamline or eliminate regulatory restrictions on new oil refineries and new energy exploration. License new nuclear power plants. Eliminate all "alternative fuels" subsidies (e.g. the ethanol boondoggle). Eliminate import tariffs on sugar and all other industry-specific protectionism. Absolutely eliminate all taxes, subsidies, and mandates intended to reduce "greenhouse gas" emissions.

 

I don't think that many people would like to life is such a brutal captalist stystem.

Anyway, without standards like CAFE, uncontrolled exploitation of the nature, declining education and with a failing infrastructure this state and its economy would fall behind in less than one or two decades.

But of course this kind of predator economy would be loved by the rich and the international corporations.

 

 

 

[rogueyam]

Anyway, without standards like CAFE, uncontrolled exploitation of the nature, declining education and with a failing infrastructure this state and its economy would fall behind in less than one or two decades.

 

I understand that English is not your first language but this simply doesn't make sense.

 

And tossing out words like "brutal" and "predator" does not explain why you think that socialism is more humane than capitalism. Which system was more humane (and better for the environment), that of the former East Germany or the system existing in the former West Germany at the time of reunification? If capitalism is so brutal and predatory, then why was all of the barbed wire on the eastern side of the Berlin Wall?

[Bangkoktraveler]

Anyway' date=' without standards like CAFE, uncontrolled exploitation of the nature, declining education and with a failing infrastructure this state and its economy would fall behind in less than one or two decades.[/quote']

 

I understand that English is not your first language but this simply doesn't make sense.

 

And tossing out words like "brutal" and "predator" does not explain why you think that socialism is more humane than capitalism. Which system was more humane (and better for the environment), that of the former East Germany or the system existing in the former West Germany at the time of reunification? If capitalism is so brutal and predatory, then why was all of the barbed wire on the eastern side of the Berlin Wall?

 

 

 

The socialism you are referring to rogie is what you claim the USA is becoming and what you claim the UK has become.

 

 

 

 

[shygye]

I just can't fathom why we as a nation are embracing third world wage structures as being good for us. When Henry Ford took stock of his business he realized he couldn't make much money selling a few cars to the rich.

 

Management and shareholders would probably say it's a question of staying competitive. Henry didn't have to compete with cheap foreign imports.

 

So Japan and Germany are third world? This may come as a surprise to their citizens!

[Steve]

If 'free market' darwinian theory is always right then America should not have injected millions (via the Marshall Plan and other forms of investments) into western europe and west Germany after the second world war.

 

Western Europe and west Germany in particular didn't follow free market capitalism in the American definition of the word and became successful.

 

I am not a fan of state controlled economies. I'm more or less a free marketer as well. 'More or less'. Its not absolute. America's economic rise to becoming the biggest economy in the world wasn't purely free market.

 

We had various economic panics on a scale of what is happening today. The panics of 1873, 1893, 1907 were all very deep and extensive. The Great Depression makes the history books but the aforementioned as well as a couple others were possibly just as severe if you read about the effects. It wasn't always free market theory that got us out of them. The government acted, as well as others like financier JP Morgan to collude with banks with the okay of the government to bring about financial order in the markets and the economy.

 

I'm not so sure that its right to claim that one view of economics will solve the current problem and use the the rise of the U.S. as evidence of it when our history doesn't support it.

[Flashermac]

Canada, Ontario to Give GM, Chrysler C$4 Billion Aid

 

 

Dec. 20 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC will get C$4 billion ($3.3 billion) in government loans from Canada and the province of Ontario, a day after the U.S. agreed to aid to keep the two automakers operating.

 

General Motorsâ?? Canadian unit will receive C$3 billion while Chrysler is set to get C$1 billion, the two governments said today. Borrowers must accept limits on executive compensation and also report â??material transactions in excess of C$125 million or more,â? the two governments said in a joint statement.

 

â??This is a huge problem that faces the Ontario community and the Canadian economy by extension,â? Prime Minister Stephen Harper said at a press conference in downtown Toronto today.

 

Canadaâ??s aid builds on the $13.4 billion in U.S. emergency loans announced by President George W. Bush. Canadian Industry Minister Tony Clement on Dec. 12 pledged to offer GM, Chrysler and Ford Motor Co.â??s Canadian units federal and provincial aid â??proportionalâ? to the their contribution to North American production, which is about 20 percent.

 

â??We will not allow catastrophic collapseâ? of the industry, Harper said. â??But the auto companies have to change the way they do their business in a very serious way.â?Â

 

The aid package is â??not a blank checkâ? and Canadian taxpayers expect the money to be used to renew the industry and involve all stakeholders in that process, Harper said.

 

Ontarioâ??s Contribution

 

Ontario will contribute C$1.3 billion to the package and the Canadian government C$2.7 billion, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty said at the same news conference.

 

â??This is about 400,000 jobs and 400,000 families,â? said McGuinty. â??Thereâ??s a lot at risk.â?Â

 

The Canadian Auto Workers union lauded the package and pledged to continue working with the companies and governments to ensure the industryâ??s survival in Canada, Ken Lewenza, president of the union said.

 

â??The announcement today was important for our industry, our workers and for all citizens of Canada,â? said Lewenza. â??There are 400,000 jobs at stake here.â?Â

 

He declined to speculate on whether his membership will have to take wage-and-benefit cuts as part of the package.

 

U.S. Package

 

The U.S. package requires companies to have pay and work rules in place by the end of 2009 that make them competitive with those of overseas automakers with plants in the U.S.

 

GM had asked for C$800 million ($641 million) in aid from Canada by monthâ??s end and an additional C$1.6 billion line of credit through the second quarter.

 

GM will receive C$800 million now and on Jan. 30 another C$1.2 billion and further C$1 billion on Feb. 27. Chrysler gets C$400 million immediately with another C$400 million at the end of January and the balance in February.

 

The industry will have to restructure and will probably end up being smaller, said Harper.

 

â??This will be a difficult restructuring,â? said McGuinty.

 

Fordâ??s Canadian unit had asked for access to as much as C$2 billion in â??standbyâ? credit, to be used if the current economic crisis worsens. Chrysler LLC didnâ??t say how much it was seeking.

 

 

Link

[WorldFun]

rogue for president