Steve Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 A couple things. The article on job cuts in Japan. Since post war days Japanese companies have had a social contract that one had a job for life. During bad times comopanies still wouldn't cut jobs. I worked in Japan for a short while several years ago and saw it first hand. That type of culture can't survive major economic downturns. They had to change. With regards to the car companies. The residual effects of the car industry possibly going under will cause ripple effects. So far, Congress has deemed its too costly. The question still remains though and we have argued this ad nauseum on this forum. No one really knows for sure. We can all talk about applying free market theories on one hand or Keynesian econoimics on the other and we still won't know what is best. Congress for me is the main problem. Until that den of theives is sorted out, we'll always have these situations because they can always be bought and can always barter their power for money from the special interest. Case in point are the same bankruptcy laws that some have said is the best remedy. Who wrote the backruptcy laws? The corporations did via the politicians they have in their pockets. The credit card companeis made it harder for the consumer to file bankruptcy and to write off certain things. The bankruptcy laws have been made 'company friendly' on an ongoing basis for years now. Until we have a congress totally independent of the very people they are supposed to relegate we'll continue to have problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 A couple things. The article on job cuts in Japan. Since post war days Japanese companies have had a social contract that one had a job for life. During bad times comopanies still wouldn't cut jobs. I worked in Japan for a short while several years ago and saw it first hand. That type of culture can't survive major economic downturns. They had to change. With regards to the car companies. The residual effects of the car industry possibly going under will cause ripple effects. So far, Congress has deemed its too costly. The question still remains though and we have argued this ad nauseum on this forum. No one really knows for sure. We can all talk about applying free market theories on one hand or Keynesian econoimics on the other and we still won't know what is best. Congress for me is the main problem. Until that den of theives is sorted out, we'll always have these situations because they can always be bought and can always barter their power for money from the special interest. Case in point are the same bankruptcy laws that some have said is the best remedy. Who wrote the backruptcy laws? The corporations did via the politicians they have in their pockets. The credit card companeis made it harder for the consumer to file bankruptcy and to write off certain things. The bankruptcy laws have been made 'company friendly' on an ongoing basis for years now. Until we have a congress totally independent of the very people they are supposed to relegate we'll continue to have problems. The first full time job I had after high school was in maufacturing. Actually, since then I have had several jobs that were in manufacturing. Those jobs disappeared a long time ago. It used to be that if you got a manufacturing job here in the USA, you had a job for life. That myth has disappeared a long time ago also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I believe the Big 3 got into trouble when the price of gas went sky high and credit frozed up. I don't think this has to do with a failed business plan but a a result of a screwed up economy. I think why the Big 3 has been scrutinized so much is because of their union but also for the USA's lack of interest in wanting to preserve the little bit of manufacturing they do have left in this country. We saw what happened to world markets when the bridge loans were turned down by Congress. The biz community understands that a) failure would take a lot of them with it and BK reorg is just not an option in this case (it will be liquidation), nor should it be as this would not be a problem if the banks would lend some of that money we gave them. Nobody is going to make a capital equipment purchase -- most likely the biggest purchase of their lives -- with a company in BK, cuz the stigma there is that they could go away at any minute. The GOPers are blindly following a failed ideology and it will lead us all off the cliff. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 What is a GOP-er ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.. Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 A person of the Republican political party affiliation. GOP is that party's nickname. They believe that laissez-faire is the holy word and it shall always be followed -- no matter that the past 30 years, cumulated in the past couple, have shown this to be a completely untrue fantasy. Cheers, SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangkoktraveler Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I believe the Big 3 got into trouble when the price of gas went sky high and credit frozed up. I don't think this has to do with a failed business plan but a a result of a screwed up economy. I think why the Big 3 has been scrutinized so much is because of their union but also for the USA's lack of interest in wanting to preserve the little bit of manufacturing they do have left in this country. We saw what happened to world markets when the bridge loans were turned down by Congress. The biz community understands that a) failure would take a lot of them with it and BK reorg is just not an option in this case (it will be liquidation)' date=' nor should it be as this would not be a problem if the banks would lend some of that money we gave them. Nobody is going to make a capital equipment purchase -- most likely the biggest purchase of their lives -- with a company in BK, cuz the stigma there is that they could go away at any minute. The GOPers are blindly following a failed ideology and it will lead us all off the cliff. Cheers, SD[/quote'] You mention it will not be bankruptcy reorganization but liquidation. I have almost the same feeling. I believe certain creditors will insist on their money which will force the reorganization bankruptcy(s) into liquidation. If the vehicle inventory gets sold off, it will mean some very cheap vehicles for their buyers. It will also mean less sales for the other car manufacturers. This could drive another and then another vehicle manufacture into liquidation. While the liquidations are going, I expect credit will be virtually impossible to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Sir , my matra is one of the basic laws in nature : in case of discrepancies anything tries to get back to balance . GM I: economically you can keep it alive by infusion of public funds . That might last long because they get used to it . Tax payer bleeding . GM II : you can keep it alive by stripping all rotten flesh ( Chapter 11 ) and feed the healthy parts . Previous creditors bleeding . Examples Germany : textile industry totally vanished over the last 25 years because nobody did care . Lots of small factories , no political gravity and therefore silent knockout . coal mines a black hole of billions for sweet deutschmarks and â?¬ . Strong unions and hords of politicians arriving on scene with a plastic helmet to defend the welfare of the working classes . Now virtually too expensive and expiring after having wasted truckloads of cash for nothing . Over to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I believe the Big 3 got into trouble when the price of gas went sky high and credit frozed up. I don't think this has to do with a failed business plan but a a result of a screwed up economy. I think why the Big 3 has been scrutinized so much is because of their union but also for the USA's lack of interest in wanting to preserve the little bit of manufacturing they do have left in this country. We saw what happened to world markets when the bridge loans were turned down by Congress. The biz community understands that a) failure would take a lot of them with it and BK reorg is just not an option in this case (it will be liquidation)' date=' nor should it be as this would not be a problem if the banks would lend some of that money we gave them. Nobody is going to make a capital equipment purchase -- most likely the biggest purchase of their lives -- with a company in BK, cuz the stigma there is that they could go away at any minute. The GOPers are blindly following a failed ideology and it will lead us all off the cliff. Cheers, SD[/quote'] You mention it will not be bankruptcy reorganization but liquidation. I have almost the same feeling. I believe certain creditors will insist on their money which will force the reorganization bankruptcy(s) into liquidation. If the vehicle inventory gets sold off, it will mean some very cheap vehicles for their buyers. It will also mean less sales for the other car manufacturers. This could drive another and then another vehicle manufacture into liquidation. While the liquidations are going, I expect credit will be virtually impossible to get. Creditors have no say in the matter, they take what a judge orders. This creates secondary problems, as they need to pay their bills as well. The whole idea of Chapter 11 is to reorganize, and keep going, the government intervenes in this, often wanting to see a viable business plan. At least they did in the airlines case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo_bill Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Either you spread the cost over the private sector or open the taxpayers wallet . Consequences each end same same , evaporation of funds . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Any farkin' money *** given *** by the US gov, should be and most be overseen! No farkin' free rides for the dumb azz management. If they piss away the $$$ in a reckless manner, hang the bastards!!! Keep it short and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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