Bye bye GM/Chrysler/Ford??

[rchapstick]

[Steve]

<< Its believed in many circles that Marx's theories were based on Old Testament. He came from a long line of Rabbis and would have been well versed in the Torah and the Old Testament. >>

 

Marx's father converted to Christianity and married a Protestant. Karl was raised as a Lutheran. Don't know how much influence his rabbi ancestors may have had on him.

 

 

From wiki,

His father, Heinrich Marx (1777â??1838), born Herschel Mordechai, the son of Levy Mordechai (1743-1804) and Eva Lwow (1753-1823), was descended from a long line of rabbis but converted to Lutheran Christianity, despite his many deistic tendencies and his admiration of such Enlightenment figures as Voltaire and Rousseau, in order to be allowed to practice Law.

It was my understanding as well whicvh was how my professors taught it (maybe they were socialists? . That they were Christian in name only, like some jews of that day, but it is possible it was a change of faith in practice as well.

[Steve]

The early settlers of America practiced a form of socialism. Certainly the Pilgrims practiced a mild form of socialism for their own survival.

 

The reason they didn't succeed initially is because they were practicing an early form of socialism.

 

First, red herring should be your middle names. lol.

Second, they did practice a form of socialism then? Especially early on for the first Thanksgiving and did it for their survival. Whether it worked or not is not the point. That they did practice it was. Obviously, they (as well as other faiths who did the same) evolved into functioning communities that resembled the concept of private ownership and entrepreneurship similar to european cities at the time.

Third, the Hebrews practiced what resembles socialism at times as well as Jesus with his desciples. Which addresseses BT's assertion that there were cultural aspects of Judeo-Christianity that resembles socialism.

 

[Faustian]

A nice little history of capitalism...it appears to have originated in England, spread throughout Europe and then the world, although it had its initial beginnings in mercantilism. Very much a European thing then....

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

 

Or

 

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GLOSSARY/CAPITAL.HTM

 

 

 

 

[buffalo_bill]

 

Germany is substantially more socialistic than America today. /quote]

 

Certainly the reason why Germany is doing a lot better then the US nowadays , mostly due to a social-democrat/green government drastically cutting social expenses .

 

RY ,

 

I am probably the only left on the board desperately trying to make some sense of you expressing a different point of political view , but it is becoming a harder job from day to day . Though we seem to agree on the GM - issue , studying your idea to skip taxes makes me wonder if you ever noticed that the lack of public spending due to absent funds led the US into a rotten infrastructure . Being a US - supporter it is sad to realise , maybe there is hope now .

 

[chuckwoww]

Does anyone see a sort of evolution here....from pilgrims to Henry Ford to Bernie Madoff?

[rogueyam]

 

Germany is substantially more socialistic than America today.

 

Certainly the reason why Germany is doing a lot better then the US nowadays ' date=' mostly due to a social-democrat/green government drastically cutting social expenses .

 

RY ,

 

I am probably the only left on the board desperately trying to make some sense of you expressing a different point of political view , but it is becoming a harder job from day to day . Though we seem to agree on the GM - issue , studying your idea to skip taxes makes me wonder if you ever noticed that the lack of public spending due to absent funds led the US into a rotten infrastructure . Being a US - supporter it is sad to realise , maybe there is hope now .

[/quote']

 

You are confusing tax rates with tax revenues. I favor reducing tax rates. Revenues may well rise due to economic growth. And yes, I favor reducing government spending as well, especially at the national level, though I don't see it as a "lack of spending" or "absent funds". To me it is eliminating waste, reducing unnecessary government interference in people's lives, and making government more accountable and responsive to the will of the people.

 

Also, who says the US has a "rotten infrastructure"? I understand that that is a leftie talking point these days but one hurricane and one ill-designed bridge do not mean that the infrastructure of a nation of fifty States and 300 million people is rotten.

 

Finally, if you or anyone else thinks that Germany is doing better than the U.S. these days that is fine by me. You can have her. I have been to Germany and I have been to America. I like America.

[buffalo_bill]

RY ,

 

you lack a degree of discussion culture meaning to listen to your opponent and probably think about it . You show more of a reflex that puts anything into the hostile box that does not say " Taxes are shite " , I am exaggerating . When I say infrastructure I mean anything between lack of health care and broken bridges . If you think the US is better than Germany here then [color:red]YOU LIE ![/color] :evil:

 

There is no fun talking to you which is why I give up though I am basically a pleasent conservative liberal .

[Bangkoktraveler]

rogie loves 'America' so much he can't wait for the Amero dollar to come out.

 

The roads in Thailand are better then the roads are in the USA.

[Steve]

5 Disasters Coming Soon If We Donâ??t Rebuild U.S. Infrastructure

 

Little action as some 160,000 US bridges are considered to be structurally deficient

 

10 October 2007: In a well-publicized 2005 report, the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) concluded that 27 per cent of the almost 600,000 bridges in the US are structurally deficient or functionally obsolete. The report estimated that it would cost US $9 billion annually for 20 years to fix the bridges alone. The collapse of a major bridge in Minneapolis in August 2007, which underscored the warnings of the ASCE study, was only the latest high-profile infrastructure failure in the US.

 

Comparing America with Germany (and western europe by extension) is apples and oranges. A lot of is subjective. We all want different things out of our society. I prefer America over Germany not because its 'better' per se. I may also be biased from living here.

Objectively speaking, I'd say that if Germany is 'better' in terms of providing me with the basics (housing, health care, etc.). I could have a middle class job in America with insurance from my employer and still be financially unable to deal with a catostrophic health issue.

I assume my German counterpart would be much better placed than I would to have the resources to deal with the issue. However, if I had a great business idea and wanted to be the next Bill Gates, I would prefer to foster that idea and build that company in America.

Generally speaking. Yes, there are millionaire entrepreneurs in Germany and yes, the middle class can and do get adequate health care for serious health issues but I think generally speaking one is better than the other in the examples I provided.

 

I agree with Rogueyam generally speaking when ti comes to tax rates and government spending. I am typically a fan of lower tax rates and lower government spending. That appeals to my libertarian leanings.

 

However, we will probably differ greatly on what rates and how much spending we should cut. The encyclopedic tax code were written with the intention of giving the ones with money loopholes for the most part. The voice of the poor and to some extent the middle class are the congress and that voice is bought by the special interest.

 

I recall during the campaign a lot was made about small businesses having to pay more in taxes under Obama's plan. Techncially true, but in actuality, businesses have so many write offs and so many ways to reduce their tax burden that the 5% increase may be nulliefied elsewhere.

 

Businesses and the very wealthy whose tax return resembles a business more than an individual have many things at their disposal to reduce their tax burden.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd take full advantage of it myself. I'm not saying it out of any hatred of the rich. Hell, I wanna be one of them. :thumbup: We have all 'fudged' on our taxes. Years ago when I got promoted a couple times in a job and my income went up substantially more than it was a couple years prior, I started a 'business' on the side that lo and behold failed to not only produce any profits for the first couple years, it had a loss that I wrote off on my tax return. The area of my home that was dedicated exclusively to this business could be written off as well as the miles I spent driving for the sake of my 'business'. hehehe I looked forward to the tax season. I got a nice little check back from the state and the IRS. I dabbled a little in the market as well and in December would sell any stocks that carried a paper loss to lower my income as well.

Point is, if we're going to lower tax rates we have to take away the loopholes.

 

The states as well as the federal government spend in a fashion as if they think the supply line for tax revenue is a straight line. They spend everything they get in and when an economic downturn happens they are in a deficit.

 

For me the priority in the budget has to be public safety first and foremost. Law enforcement, fire, etc. then a tie between education and health. Everything else gets the more severe cuts.