playtheblues Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 >>I feel a strong empathy towards all the millions who are slaves under islam. ... hear, hear. I feel a strong sympathy towards all the millions who are slaves under ALL religions! From ludicrous Sharia laws, to nutcase Mormons and Plymouth Brethren, through Orthdox Jews wearing funny hats and making their wives shave their heads bald, to Hindus praying to monkeys for fertility. Religion is the opium of the masses. I simply dislike the currently fashionable singling out of Muslims as scapegoats and the object of hate. :beer I can agree that also Christianism and Judaism but not necessarily Buddhism make believers slaves - talking in Nietzschean (damned spelling) terms - but Islam is worse because it is basically alien to the tribe where I belong, Western Democracies. As a member of this tribe I can at least tolerate Christianism and its institutions. And I have never pretended to be anything else than a secular Westerner which forms my cultural identity. If Western values and institutions need defence I will defend them even if a cultural relativist would say that other values are equally valid (as you understand I believe many of them are not). Just read the chapter about islam in Christopher Hitchen's "God Is Not Great" and you will be reminded why islam is the most primitive and contradictory of all religions and at the same time makes the most absolutist and intolerant demands on being strictly obeyed even within the realm of politics where religion should have no place at all. You seem to use the human rights issue of hatred against muslim people as a disguise for neutralizing the evil of islamic religion. "Religion poisons everything" and islam is the worst of all poisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Agree with that...especially your last sentence. I just abhor religion in all its flavours. Maybe Islam is the worst at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtheblues Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Of course, Western values, and I particularily mean those based on liberal enlightened thinking, encompass a wide scope of tolerance and the ability to overhear and question ones own beliefs. But it cannot be question of tolerating intolerance...and Islam is intolerance itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiHome Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 I guess you seemed to ignore the attacks on christian churches in West Java during 2004-7 that pretty much drove all the of them out. TH West Java: another Christian church attacked Shouting â??Allah u Akbarâ??, a group of men storm a church Sunday in Bandung in West Java. The incident confirms a trend involving many attempts to suppress religious freedom in the predominantly Muslim country. A survey by a British human rights group shows that West Java is a hotbed of Indonesiaâ??s anti-Christian movements. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bust Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Of course, Western values, and I particularily mean those based on liberal enlightened thinking, encompass a wide scope of tolerance and the ability to overhear and question ones own beliefs. But it cannot be question of tolerating intolerance...and Islam is intolerance itself. Ever tried that line on a muslim? Maybe the fact that the west tries so hard to thrust it values down all and sundry plays a huge roll in the determination of Islamic fundies to blow the fuck out of anyone who doesn't follow their beliefs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted February 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 ...or the stories that come out of Malaysia where children are taken away from their parents because the parents want to stop being Muslims...or the mother is sent to a "reeducation camp" and on and on, with Malaysia being a "somewhat" tolerant Muslim country!!! WTF, talk about forcing religion down one's throat!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTO Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Ever seen the Thai girl accepting to work in awful conditions in the belief that she'll come back next time in a better position, now that's one strong drug - oops - Buddhism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bust Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 Ever caught the ferry from Algeciras to Tangier? Q. "What time does the ferry leave?" A. "In allah's time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtheblues Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Maybe the fact that the west tries so hard to thrust it values down all and sundry plays a huge roll in the determination of Islamic fundies to blow the fuck out of anyone who doesn't follow their beliefs.. Well, British colonialism was indeed about thrusting Victorian values "down all and sundry" but those are not the values I am talking about. The reason muslim preachers and rulers (and some western radicals) are propagating the myth that the ideas of freedom and tolerance are nothing but Western attempts of neocolonialism is that they fear their people will listen and want these values implemented. A sign of the strenght and universality of some "Western" core values is the fact that the UN Security Council took a resolution after the Gulf war that authorized the international community to take action against a country that seriously oppresses its people (I have forgotten the exact wording and meaning of the resolution). Though I seriously oppose(d) the Iraq invasion by president Bush I must grudgingly admit that Iraq is step by step becoming a better country than during Saddam's rule (a report in IHT yesterday). You must see this as a typical Western way of forcing democratic values on a people who doesn't want them. But i am not sure its the PEOPLE who don't agree with those values... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavanami Posted February 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I see it as coming down to, what the majority of the people in a country want? If say 1% protest, riot, kill, etc to try to force they beliefs on others, then this is not the "will of the people" but of a small minority. I see the Muslims, at first a small minority, trying to force their beliefs on the majority and I do not agree with this at all. The flip side is, if the majority do not want to be force fed, then the majority must get off its azz and repel the force feeding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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