Time To "Bitch-slap Israel"?

[chuckwoww]

Nope, this was the heavy gang. They soon put the schwartzer in his place.

[Steve]

I sometimes wonder how loyal AIPAC's members are to the U.S.? If push came to shove and Israel were clearly wrong and we took measures to punish or deny them funds, aid or whatever, how many would pressure their own government (although they hold dual passports) to stop?

 

I wondered the same about Nation of Islam members as well due their animus against the government and whites in particular. I was worried that after 911 a splinter group or individuals within the organization acting alone would be involved in some domestic terror event. Being born and raised americans who have do not look arab and speak and look like myself, that someone would be involved in some plot. It has not come to fruition and they have laid low to some extent. Its not popular to be a militant muslim in the U.S. right now. Even black americans who sympathized wtih them backed off as far as I can tell (from friends).

 

Anyway, back to Israel and domestic groups. I wonder the same. There have loads of domestic spying for Israel that doesn't make the press. Loads still going on. I recall reading that Israeli spies were aware of the 911 plotters as well but not sure to what extent. It may be true or not but I recall reading it.

 

 

[chuckwoww]

I sometimes wonder how loyal AIPAC's members are to the U.S.? If push came to shove and Israel were clearly wrong and we took measures to punish or deny them funds, aid or whatever, how many would pressure their own government (although they hold dual passports) to stop?

 

 

I wonder the same thing. Some people would have to decide where their loyalties lie. The most significant thing to come out of this lately is Gen. Petraeus saying that unconditional support for Israel endangers American troops. That's strong stuff.

 

[Steve]

I agree. The same could also have been said about Irish Americans who supported the IRA financially and with weapons.

 

Anyway, I think more than a few would support Israel without question. When you mix religion with politics and espcially a religion that so ingrained as judaism I do have my reservations.

 

Maybe its bias on my part but I never felt the same worry about Americans who are catholic and the papacy. The catholics I knew were mostly catholics in name only.

 

Anyway, I think its a non starter as I said because we will only go so far with regards to Israel. There are simply too many groups and peopel with power in the U.S. to let us do anything of much consequence. I would say this regarding just about anything Israel does even something that is clear cut.

 

The first one to get tagged with the anti-semitic label will quiet down anyone else but the most ardent. Its how this country is. You get hit with homophobic, racist (against black or latino), anti-woman and it muddies the debate.

[ThaiHome]

People seem to forget that Israel is a functioning democracy and the policies of its leaders reflects that of the majority of the population. Until the Israeli people can be convinced to back away from this policy it will never go away. I think picking this little fight is one way the US government is trying to show the Israeli people it is a dangerous route.

 

Someone earlier said something about Obama being hated in Israel, but this poll contradicts that. Also shows that settlements are pretty well supported.

TH

 

 

Poll: Israelis view Obama favorably despite row

 

JERUSALEM – A poll shows an overwhelming majority of Israelis think President Barack Obama is fair and friendly toward Israel, despite a grave diplomatic feud with the U.S. over east Jerusalem construction.

 

Israelis are sending mixed signals about their own leader, however. The poll shows 36 percent of those questioned think Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is best suited to lead Israel, versus 26 percent for his closest challenger, opposition leader Tzipi Livni.

 

Another survey shows Livni would overtake Netanyahu if elections were held today.

 

The polls show between 41 and 46 percent of Israelis would freeze construction in Jerusalem's disputed eastern sector, the issue at the heart of the U.S.-Israeli row. But about half object to a freeze.

Link

[chuckwoww]

That's a timely poll. So the Israelis generally like Obama but not his policy towards settlements. This problem is not going away.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35928291/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/

[chuckwoww]

The first one to get tagged with the anti-semitic label will quiet down anyone else but the most ardent. Its how this country is. You get hit with homophobic, racist (against black or latino), anti-woman and it muddies the debate.

 

I'm not sure that charge works anymore CS when you have people like Clinton, Biden and Petraeus losing patience with Israeli policies.

 

[temfarang]

,, Petraeus losing patience with Israeli>>

 

petraeus stating in public that Israeli policies are responsible for the deaths of american GIs could turn some non-evangelical flag wavers against israel's on going land theft.

 

bonus question: who sang 'your flag decal will not get you into heaven anymore' .. vietnam era song by a guy who now has had throat surgery yet still performs & records.

 

He mentioned that palestine is not under his command .. unique to the middle east (western Asia)

 

he also stated that palestine is the main topic amongst arabs.. not iraq of afghanistan

 

bonus question answer: john prine

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=xp1mIYJNKWQ

[Steve]

The first one to get tagged with the anti-semitic label will quiet down anyone else but the most ardent. Its how this country is. You get hit with homophobic' date=' racist (against black or latino), anti-woman and it muddies the debate. [/quote']

 

I'm not sure that charge works anymore CS when you have people like Clinton, Biden and Petraeus losing patience with Israeli policies.

 

I really hope you're right. I hate the labeling that some do.

 

You do make a good point with regards to the major players. Staunch supporters of Israel generally.

 

I've also been a believer that real change in policy, etc. is best from someone who is part of that group./

 

For example Sadat with regards to Israel., LBJ , a southerner (okay he's a Texan) and civil rights., Clinton, a Democrat and popular with blacks, changing social welsfare., etc.

 

That sad, Boxer and Feinstein both being very prominant and jewish could be very instrumental in selling tough measures.

 

Israel is a democracy, yes. Its got a lot of parties, more than the U.S. at least (even an arab one that weilds a certain amount of power) but I get the feeling (and maybe I'm off base), its sorta like the U.S.

 

In that I mean the government makes decisions sometimes that doesn't necessarily reflect the people.

 

The same argument could be made of the U.S. and it would seem a valid argument (and the argument bin Laden uses) that the foreign policy and acts of the U.S. reflects the will of the people so he reasons the U.S. people can be gone after directly.

 

In theory, yes. But I didn't get the idea the whole country was yearning to go into Iraq for example. We were all worried. The people didn't want the bailouts as well, for example. The polls indicated otherwise.

 

If the polls are to be believed, the same for health care and if that's the case it shouldn't have gotten as far as it did.

 

Politicians often go against public opinion. They or a party may get into power on a specific issue that they enact as the will of the people but when in office they make unpopular decisions.

 

Perhaps to some extent Israel is the same? I don't know. Its more a question than anything else.

[chuckwoww]

I don't know how closely you follow Israeli politics CS but the Netanyahu government is made up of a coalition. Essential to holding the coalition together are the 2 settler parties. Without them the government would collapse.

 

This may be what Obama is betting on. Who knows. There is even talk of cutting funds to Israel. I can't see that happening. I do think it's reached a point where an apartheid and/or 'population transfer' policy is incompatible with core American values.