Usa Thread

[Old Hippie]

12 hours ago, bust said:

Someone needs to explain Proposition 49 to him 🙄

TRUMP: “You’re allowed to rob a store as long as it’s not more than $950. … If it’s less than $950 they can rob it and not get charged.”

THE FACTS: Trump was referring to regulations in California that allegedly allow for theft under $950. But his claim is not correct — a 2014 proposition modified, but did not eliminate, sentencing for many nonviolent property and drug crimes.

Basically refers to a San Francisco ordinance that the city would not prosecute “petty” or “non-violent crimes) such as shop lifting or car break ins if the value of loss was less than $950…previously I think it had been $500? Robbery by definition, would not apply to this. The reasoning behind this was the jails here are over crowded mainly with petty offenders, small drug offenders, shop lifters etc, many of which result in probation or small sentences if any time served so there was no sense in tying up the courts with them… We do have a serious problem with petty crime how ever, some think it is a direct result of the changes to the law…

[Mekong]

3 hours ago, Old Hippie said:

We do have a serious problem with petty crime how ever, some think it is a direct result of the changes to the law…

IMHO the overloaded prison population is due to the draconian 3-Strikes rule. There are people serving life sentences for offences with a value of less the $950 committed years ago

[Coss]

grind 'em up and use 'em for fertiliser

but not anyone I like

...

[bust]

7 hours ago, Old Hippie said:

Basically refers to a San Francisco ordinance that the city would not prosecute “petty” or “non-violent crimes) such as shop lifting or car break ins if the value of loss was less than $950…previously

After reading up on it I believe they do prosecute however

"47 changed the law so that some low level, non-violent felonies can only be charged as misdemeanors for most people. Prop. 47 also allows most people who have qualifying felony convictions in their past to petition to reclassify those convictions to misdemeanors."

[Old Hippie]

11 hours ago, bust said:

After reading up on it I believe they do prosecute however

"47 changed the law so that some low level, non-violent felonies can only be charged as misdemeanors for most people. Prop. 47 also allows most people who have qualifying felony convictions in their past to petition to reclassify those convictions to misdemeanors."

Most of the lessor crimes here, like prostitution, buying or selling, petty drug crimes and car break ins etc are almost never prosecuted anymore…parts of the city are now open air drug markets as well as open air toilet…More than Harris/Newsome I would blame former city DA (district attorney) Chesa Boudin (son of domestic terrorists)  and his foolish ideals about crime and punishment, he honestly thought it was unfair he grew up with incarcerated parents, not knowing if his dad would ever come home… Well what about the guy he killed and his kids asshole..?  

     Anyway, will soon move away, bury my head in the sand and not look back…

[Old Hippie]

16 hours ago, Mekong said:

IMHO the overloaded prison population is due to the draconian 3-Strikes rule. There are people serving life sentences for offences with a value of less the $950 committed years ago

This is part of the problem. One of the other parts is the pettiness of US laws, especially in certain jurisdictions. Plenty of people doing long time because they got caught with a small amount of drugs and are doing times as “king pins…”  on a first offense. When you lock tons of people up for what amounts to nothing, the prisons will become over crowded. Another part of the problem here is the USA “Prison industrial complex.” Basically, private corporations build prisons, staff them, then charge the states so much per inmate per year…of course, this means food contracts, security/maintenance contracts, clothing contracts etc…tons of corruption as well, kick backs etc… So of course you’d want that prisoner count high to assure massive profits, justice be damned…

[Coss]

OldH, I feel for you, whilst Middle Earth is not as bad as what you describe, it is becoming easier to see that this is where we are moving to.

It adds fuel to the fire, that I'm seeing, in which NZ is imitating the USA in cultural, financial and military (not huge) matters.

A few years ago we'd mock the average American for spelling, (color vs colour), bad grammar and an often incomprehensible logic pattern, which gave rise to the phrase, "only/meanwhile in America..."   (also Florida man...)

These days, I'm finding myself having to adapt and use, American spelling, lack of grammar and logic, to communicate with my fellow Kiwis.

My point I guess, is that this is why, some from outside of the USA, are so wary of the Drumpft* boy getting another shot, at world domination.

This American political situation is not a Tennis Game that the best candidate will win, after a match of wits and skill, guided by sanity and rules.

It's a match, set on a Tennis Court with decades of precedent, wherein recent rule breaking and bad form was Mr Nixon.

Now we have a new player, for whom the stage is the most important thing, the rules don't exist.

The hordes of bootlicking, inane, gumption-less townsfolk, have been kept, by and large, from storming the Tennis Arena and taking the match by force.

But the nature, of the bootlicking, inane, gumption-less prole, is to be guided, to think that losing, is a perverse and clever way of winning, that promises will become fact and that, just because he doesn't understand all of this, the bright shiny one does, and is the best person to understand these things.

This why we have cars, which can reach a top speed of over 250 mph (403 km/h)** when the legal and enforced speed limit is much lower (100km/h in NZ). Because Joe Lunchbox wants one....

I reminded of the movie "Idiocracy" and the stories, "The Roads Must Roll" by Robert A. Heinlein and "When The Sleeper Wakes" By H. G. Wells.

___

* Trump's earliest known male ancestor is Johann Philipp Drumpft

**  (McLaren)

[bust]

8 hours ago, Old Hippie said:

Basically, private corporations build prisons, staff them, then charge the states so much per inmate per year…of course, this means food contracts, security/maintenance contracts, clothing contracts etc…tons of corruption as well, kick backs etc… So of course you’d want that prisoner count high to assure massive profits, justice be damned…

There is also the use of virtual "slave labor." I remember watching a documentary on the US prison system being the biggest growth industry in the USA. Prison manufactured goods within the system are sold on with huge profits.

A loophole in the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution passed after the Civil War made forced labor legal, abolishing slavery except “as punishment for a crime.” 

And now Trump want's to tear that same Constitution down. I don't get it. Amerikans always bang on about their right to do this and their right to do that yet they want to elect a man who has already made it quiet clear he wants to dismantle it.

 

[Old Hippie]

21 minutes ago, bust said:

There is also the use of virtual "slave labor." I remember watching a documentary on the US prison system being the biggest growth industry in the USA. Prison manufactured goods within the system are sold on with huge profits.

A loophole in the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution passed after the Civil War made forced labor legal, abolishing slavery except “as punishment for a crime.” 

And now Trump want's to tear that same Constitution down. I don't get it. Amerikans always bang on about their right to do this and their right to do that yet they want to elect a man who has already made it quiet clear he wants to dismantle it.

 

Prison labor..? Not sure how much that is done now a days as it was before, road crews and such… Most prisoners are required to work to some extent, usually within the confines of the prison, grounds keeping, laundry, food prep…in some states, farm work for prison food consumption (I think Huntsville in Texas has a  farm/ranch. Not really sure if any products are produced for use by non-government entities or if it all stays in house? or if it is just a way to keep costs down and get stuff done? Either way, I am sure someone is profiting from it. 

      Convict labor is used to fight fires and help with natural disasters in some cases. How ever, many of the convicts actually want to do it as it gets them out of the prison, better food and regular showers. 

[bust]

While most of the labor relates to internal content they do still have a manufacturing arm which provides goods for external use outside the prison system.

Prison labor in the United States is referred to as insourcing. Under the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC), employers receive a tax credit of $2,400 for every work-release inmate they employ as a reward for hiring “risky target groups.”

The workers are not only cheap labor, but they are considered easier to control. They also?tend to be African-American males. Companies are free to avoid providing benefits like health insurance or sick days. They also don’t need to worry about unions, demands for vacation time, raises or family issues.

According to the Left Business Observer, “the federal prison industry produces 100 percent of all military helmets, war supplies and other equipment. The workers supply 98 percent of the entire market for equipment assembly services; 93 percent of paints and paintbrushes; 92 percent of stove assembly; 46 percent of body armor; 36 percent of home appliances; 30 percent of headphones/microphones/speakers; and 21 percent of office furniture. Airplane parts, medical supplies and much more: prisoners are even raising seeing-eye dogs for blind people.”

With all of that productivity, the inmates make about 90 cents to $4 a day.

Here are some of the biggest corporations to use such practices, but there are hundreds more:

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/McDonalds-Elementary-Genocide-300x225.jpg

McDonald’s
McDonald’s uses inmates to produce frozen foods. Inmates process beef for patties. They may also process bread, milk and chicken products

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Wendys-ElementaryGenocide-300x171.jpg

Wendy’s
Wendy’s has also been identified as relying on prison labor to reduce it’s cost of operations. Inmates also process beef for patties.

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/walmart-Elementary-Genocide-300x225.jpg

Wal-Mart
The company uses inmates for manufacturing purposes. The company “hires” inmates to clean products of UPC bar codes so that products can be resold.

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Starbucks1-Elementary-Genocide-300x177.jpg

Starbucks
The company uses inmates to cut costs as well. Starbucks subcontractor Signature Packaging Solutions hired Washington state prisoners to package holiday coffees.

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/sprint-Elementary-Genocide-300x162.jpg

Sprint
Inmates provide telecommunication services. Inmates are used in call centers.

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/verizon-Elementary-Genocide-300x169.jpg

Verizon
Inmates provide telecommunication services.

 

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Victoria-Secret-ElementaryGenocide-300x200.jpg

Victoria’s Secret
The company uses inmates to cut production costs. In South Carolina, female inmates were used to sew products. Also, inmates reportedly have been used to replace “made in” tags with “Made in USA” tags.

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Fidelity-Investments-ElementaryGencoide-300x199.jpg

Fidelity Investments
401(K) or other investments are held by Fidelity, and, in some cases, some of your money invested by Fidelity is used for prison labor or in other operations related to the prison industrial complex. The investment firm funds the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), which has created laws authorizing and increasing the use of inmates in manufacturing.

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/JC-Penny-Kmart-ElementaryGenocide-300x200.jpg

J.C Penney and Kmart
Kmart and J.C. Penney both sell jeans made by inmates in Tennessee prisons.

http://thejusticeimperative.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/American_Airlines-Elementary-Genocide-300x183.jpg

Airlines and Avis
American Airlines and the car rental company Avis use inmates to take reservations.

http://maltajusticeinitiative.org/12-major-corporations-benefiting-from-the-prison-industrial-complex-2/