Usa Thread

[Flashermac]

Now this is quite different from the "torching" reports. They did give him a chance to surrender.

 

"Just before 5 p.m., authorities smashed the cabin's windows, pumped in tear gas and called for the suspect to surrender. They got no response, officials said. Then, using a demolition vehicle, they tore down the cabin's walls one by one. By the time they got to the last wall, authorities heard a single gunshot, a source said.

 

Then flames began to spread through the structure, and gunshots, probably set off by the fire, were heard, officials said."

[unit731]

<< WHO . . . makes the determination that . . . that guy in that shack . . . is a scumbag? >>

 

 

You were a grunt. If someone shot at you, did you call out "Stop, alleged VC" and read him his rights?

 

Dorner was charged with killing a woman, her fiance, a policeman and a sheriff's deputy, plus wounding others and had held two women hostage. He'd been trained as a police sniper and said he expected to die. He was very dangerous.

 

Even so, intentionally torching the house was over the top. That was taking the easy way out.

 

 

p.s. Dorner called up Monica Quan's father and taunted him about murdering his daughter. Mr Nice Guy.

 

 

 

Apparently there are conflicting reports. The truth will come out.

 

 

My time in RVN was mostly in a "free fire zone" - could shoot anyone at any time. Not my comrades in arms obviously.

 

But my team/squad did not shoot everyone. There were kids at times trying to sell us cold sodas. Can't shoot them.

 

But war is quite different from civilian Southern California.

[unit731]

Make those friggin' old folks living in county homes and those living in veterans homes - go out and get a friggin' drivers license or some form of picture ID. There are wheelchair accessible vans now. Drag them out of those hospital beds and make them get an ID.

 

 

"But here's the thing: Not only is voter fraud not rampant – it's virtually nonexistent. The iron-clad word on the subject comes from the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law, whose 2007 report, 'The Truth About Voter Fraud,' sorts through thousands of allegations going back to the 1990s in the most in-depth voter fraud study ever undertaken. The bottom line, confirmed by allsubsequentresearch: "Usually, only a tiny portion of the claimed illegality is substantiated — and most of the remainder is either nothing more than speculation or has been conclusively debunked." In fact, "one is more likely to be struck by lightning than to commit voter fraud."

 

 

 

LINK

 

And those Nuns living in a cloister their entire adult lives - push them on a bus make them go to the DMV to get a photo ID.

 

I don't want to bump into a cloistered nun who does not have a picture ID. Good God !

[unit731]

Judge, jury, and executioner.

 

 

"Another video surfaced allegedly featuring a recording of KCAL TV, an LA CBS affiliate, in which an unknown officer shouts angrily, "We're going to burn him out," and "Burn this mother***ker!" With the remarks airing live, the feed was silenced before the anchor explained apologetically that police officers were “understandably upsetâ€.

 

An additional supposed recording from an LAPD police scanner was later pulled and posted via LiveLeak. The narrative includes numerous references to “burning him out†(29:30)."

 

"Though an eerie rift between those viewing Dorner as a demented anti-hero and those supporting law enforcement’s actions has emerged, a larger issue looms; one concerning the decay of law enforcement-citizen relations Dorner warned of in his manifesto.

 

One rescinds their right to not be killed when actively murdering others, but if the Los Angeles Police Department intentionally “burned†Dorner out of his barricade, they have duty and obligation to the honestly share with the public their actions. With the high publicity of this incident captivating the collective attention of Americans growing concerned about the shocking increases of police violence, this opportunity for transparency is extraordinary.

 

Not so long ago peace officers protected and served the citizens as guardians of justice, due process and order."

 

 

LINK

 

 

We don't need no stinkin' Bill of Rights in cases like this.

[unit731]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgdB5cIBYow

[Steve]

Its amazing the amount of public sympathy for Dorner in LA even though he killed innocent people. Part of the reason is the LAPD themselves. They do not have a good reputation in Los Angeles and by extension this includes law enforcement in surrounding areas (LA County sherriffs, Inglewood PD, Santa Monica PD, etc.). They seem to try and outdo each other. Law enforcement in the greater Los Angeles area is a revenue generator. They will write up anyone for the mildest things. What used to be a simple warning years ago is now written up and can cost you time and money.

I recall late at night a cop sitting in the parking lot next to me watching me come out of a 24hr market. Forgot to turn on my headlights when I started my car and instead of reminding me to do it followed me out of the parking lot until I got down the street to stop me and write me a ticket. I was wondering why he was following me out of the parking lot. Was I wrong? Definitely. Was it chicken shit of a cop to do that instead of just telling me before I left the premises? Definitely. Its the kind of thing they do and its often against middle class, no one is immune. They camp out near night club areas and write tickets on weekend nights. They camp out near schools and universitities and do the same. Any and all minor infractions and the city raises the rates on those. I'm not talking $25 bucks or so but its usually closer to $100 and some require a courtroom appearance like speeding or whatever which requires a day off from work.

 

No one has love for the police. They target everyone. They are also known for corruption. The vice, narc squads especially. They will lie for each other in an instant. A few cases of outright lies have been unearthed.

 

Are there some good cops out there? Certainly, the majority are. However the good ones have been given a mandate to write as many tickets as they can to bolster their rating.

 

That said, Dorner is a complete nutcase.

[Steve]

As for the voter ID issue. I'm not against having an ID. What I am against is HOW they are going on about it. Its disenfranchizing people. Have people fill out a form AFTER they vote. Get them an ID for next time since voter fraud is not an issue. Also, provide the IDs to the unemployed, elderly free. Stop making harder for people to vote.

[Coss]

Its amazing the amount of public sympathy for Dorner in LA even though he killed innocent people. Part of the reason is the LAPD themselves. They do not have a good reputation in Los Angeles and by extension this includes law enforcement in surrounding areas (LA County sherriffs, Inglewood PD, Santa Monica PD, etc.). They seem to try and outdo each other. Law enforcement in the greater Los Angeles area is a revenue generator. They will write up anyone for the mildest things. What used to be a simple warning years ago is now written up and can cost you time and money.

I recall late at night a cop sitting in the parking lot next to me watching me come out of a 24hr market. Forgot to turn on my headlights when I started my car and instead of reminding me to do it followed me out of the parking lot until I got down the street to stop me and write me a ticket. I was wondering why he was following me out of the parking lot. Was I wrong? Definitely. Was it chicken shit of a cop to do that instead of just telling me before I left the premises? Definitely. Its the kind of thing they do and its often against middle class, no one is immune. They camp out near night club areas and write tickets on weekend nights. They camp out near schools and universitities and do the same. Any and all minor infractions and the city raises the rates on those. I'm not talking $25 bucks or so but its usually closer to $100 and some require a courtroom appearance like speeding or whatever which requires a day off from work.

 

No one has love for the police. They target everyone. They are also known for corruption. The vice, narc squads especially. They will lie for each other in an instant. A few cases of outright lies have been unearthed.

 

Are there some good cops out there? Certainly, the majority are. However the good ones have been given a mandate to write as many tickets as they can to bolster their rating.

 

That said, Dorner is a complete nutcase.

 

I comment from a position of ignorance - my on the ground experience of the USA, being a week or so in San Francisco with Old Hippy as a tour guide... (Good times)

 

So I am always amazed at the apparent, over the top, actions of what always seem to be LAPD officers, like the ones who shot up a car containing a woman and her mother, thinking that they were a very big armed black man named Dorner. Many many many bullets, car riddled, other cars, neighboring houses with many bullet holes.... Curiously the women were not too seriously injured and survived.

 

The international media has fed me imagery, over the years, of scenes of cops, piling on with violence and aggression directed at seemingly passive subjects. A typical scenario is thus: a car chase ends, what looks like 50 police cars pull up and all the officers leap from their cars and pile on top of a single subject, who has thoughtfully laid down on the ground, hands behind his head, submissive. The resultant pile of cops is meantime, trying to pummel him to death, no doubt hitting each other and enraging themselves in the process. This sort of pack behaviour is most often seen in wild hunting dogs in Africa, when tearing apart prey.

 

People say that this is the few, the exception, but to my mind, it happens enough, to make it to the media often.

 

On the other side, Fred Reed of Fredoneverything, has a series of "cop columns" here that put this argument into context, the articles are a very good read and give the reader some perspective from the cop's side.

 

I can say, that the actions of the gun toting citizenry and police of LA as portrayed to me in the media, have put LA way down on my list of places to visit, I just wouldn't feel safe.

[cavanami]

A few years back, there was a similar incident near Waco, Texas...except women and children were in the house(s)

when the US gov attacked with all they had!

 

Problem with all this is "we" get to "hear" only what the media/gov "thinks" we need to hear (or know).

[unit731]

. Also, provide the IDs to the unemployed, elderly free.

 

 

In my state it is "free".

 

BUT. The documents required to obtain the "free" picture ID are not free. A whole slew of documents and paperwork are required. And no free transportation to obtain the other documents required to obtain the "free" picture ID.

 

So how free is "free"?