Gloves Off - Libya

[Hugh_Hoy]

Does US participation without US Congress approval pass Constitutional muster?

 

That one is easy! Of course it does - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution

 

Apparently some lawyers in Congress (on both sides of the aisle) don't read/agree with the Wikipedia author...or read it differently. :content:

 

HH

[TheCorinthian]

If you actually read the bill and not the Wiki link, it is pretty clear that POTUS can beat the crap out of just about anyone... for 60 days. Some of you may remember that it was this bill that forced Reagan to get the Marines out of Barute (sp?) in the early 80's.

 

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

Republicans would probably like this one to go pear-shaped.

 

I doubt that they want to take back Congress AND the White House in 2012 with a 3rd war in progress. 555555555 It's bad enough that they'll have to tackle deficit spending that's 3 times what it was 2 years ago. :content:

 

HH

[Flashermac]

 

Who are the Libyan rebels? U.S. tries to figure out.

 

 

When a U.S. Air Force pilot ejected from his crashing F-15 Eagle fighter jet and landed in rebel-held eastern Libya overnight Tuesday, he soon found that he was in friendly hands.

 

"He was a very nice guy," Libyan businessman Ibrahim Ismail told Newsweek of the initially quite anxious American pilot. "He came to free the Libyan people." Rebel officials dispatched a doctor to attend to the pilot and presented him with a bouquet of flowers, according to Newsweek.

 

But the U.S. government, now engaged in a fourth day of air strikes against Libyan regime military targets, does not know very much about the rebels who now see it as a friendly ally in their fight to overthrow Muammar Gadhafi.

 

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton held a 45-minute, closed-door meeting with Mahmoud Jibril, a leader of the newly formed Libyan opposition Interim National Council in a luxury Paris hotel earlier this month. But in a clear signal of America's wariness about all the unknowns, Clinton gave no public statement after their meeting and did not appear in photographs with the rebel leader. (In contrast, a week earlier French President Nicholas Sarkozy bestowed formal diplomatic recognition on the Council and was photographed shaking hands with its emissaries Jibril and Ali Essawi on the steps of the Elysee Palace.)

 

Middle East policy watchers note a glaring disconnect between the buoyant expectations of some rebel supporters that the international military coalition will provide direct air support for their armed struggle, and the insistence of U.S. military commanders that their mandate allows for no such thing.

 

[color:red]The coalition mission doesn't include protecting forces engaged in combat against Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi's forces, Gen. Carter Ham, the commander of U.S. Africa Command, told reporters Monday. His mission, Ham said, is narrowly confined to preventing Gadhafi forces from attacking civilians, getting Gadhafi's forces to pull back from rebel-held towns, and allowing civilians humanitarian access to food, water, and electricity/gas supplies, Ham said.[/color]

 

So who are the Libyan rebels with whom we now seem (for better or for worse) to be joined with in a shared fight against Gadhafi?

 

One view has it that the Libyan rebels are basically peaceful protesters who found their demonstrations against Gadhafi met with bullets and had no choice but to resort to violence.

 

"The protesters are nice, sincere people who want a better future for Libya," Human Rights Watch Emergencies Director Peter Bouckaert told South Africa's Business Day. "But their strength is also their weakness: they aren't hardened fighters, so no one knows what the end game will be."

 

"This is not really a civil war between two equal powers--it started as a peaceful protest movement and was met with bullets," Bouckaert continued. "Now you have a situation where you have a professional and heavily equipped army fighting a disorganized and inexperienced bunch of rebels who stand little chance against them."

 

Still, the rebels are largely unknown to the American government, despite initial tentative meetings such as Clinton's and some meetings held by U.S. Ambassador to Libya Gene Cretz with opposition representatives. (Cretz is now working out of the State Department, as the United States has withdrawn its diplomatic presence.) Last week, President Barack Obama appointed an American diplomat, Chris Stevens, to be the U.S. liaison to the Libyan opposition.

 

"We don't have the comfort level with the rebels," said the National Security Network's Joel Rubin, a former State Department official. "We certainly know some things about them, had meetings. It's not as if there's complete blindness. But I don't think at this stage the comfort level is there for that kind of close coordination."

 

But the Libyan rebels seem to have found western consultants who have offered advice on reassuring buzzwords the West would like to hear. On Tuesday, the Interim National Council issued just such a soothing statement from their rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

 

"The Interim National Council is committed to the ultimate goal of the revolution which is to build a democratic civil state, based on the rule of law, respect for human rights including ... equal rights and duties for all citizens, ... equality between men and women, " the Council said in their statement.

 

The Council also "reaffirms that Libya's foreign policy will be based on mutual respect and ... respect [for] international law and international humanitarian law," the group said.

 

 

 

Link

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

what is the point in this?

 

Very good question, Phil. Our "Commander-in Chief" is MIA right now down in South America someplace visiting memorials and making friends and smiling for the cameras. Maybe when he gets back to the USA he will have found the right words to give us all an answer. Say what you might about GW and GWB, at least they went on TV almost at the same time planes launched their first rockets to explain what was going on, what the objective was, and why they felt it important. And they BOTH had Congress on board.

 

HH

[Flashermac]

 

U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed Air Force jet

 

 

Six Libyan villagers are recovering in hospital after being shot by American soldiers coming in to rescue the U.S. pilots whose plane crash-landed in a field.

 

The helicopter strafed the ground as it landed in a field outside Benghazi beside the downed U.S. Air Force F-15E Eagle which ran into trouble during bombing raid last night.

 

And a handful of locals who had come to greet the pilots were hit - among them a young boy who may have to have a leg amputated because of injuries caused by a bullet wound.

 

The crew of the fighter plane had enjoyed a miraculous escape after suffering suspected mechanical failure during the third night of air strikes on Colonel Gaddafi's military positions.

 

As one crew member was surrounded by locals, he held his arms out, calling 'okay, okay', according to the Evening Standard - but the grateful Libyans queued to thank him and give him fruit juice.

 

Younis Amruni told the newspaper: 'I hugged him and said "Don't be scared, we are your friends". We are so grateful to these men who are protecting the skies.'

 

The plane, based at RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk, had set off from Aviano in Italy but came down at Bu Mariem, some 24 miles east of Benghazi.

 

The jet's wreckage is set to be recovered or destroyed by the Americans, to prevent it coming into Gaddafi's hands, while the crew were seen by a doctor in the rebel stronghold before being taken to a U.S. ship.

 

Force F-15 Strike Eagle crashed in Libya but it was not shot down, while Vince Crawley, a spokesman for the Africa Command, said both crew members ejected and sustained minor injuries.

 

[color:red]Gauging the reaction of locals in the area, Hilsum said 'the local Libyans do not seem resentful, they still want the coalition forces to keep operating'.

 

The incident is an embarrassment all round for the coalition, which had been met by strong anti-aircraft fire over Tripoli last night.[/color]

 

However, the U.S. did managed to fire 20 Tomahawk cruise missiles into Libya in the past 12 hours, a military spokeswoman confirmed today.

 

...

 

 

 

Link

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

Except from Ron Paul of course but everybody knows he's nuts.

 

He and Kucinich are of the same cloth. Kucinich, surprisingly has actually talked about the constitutionality and "impreachment". LOL. Let's face it, Presidents of both parties have pretty much ignored the law for so-called "police actions". But don't you expect better who, as a Senator and "constitutional scholar" (Obama)took the floor of the Senate to support the law five years ago? Further, as you know, he's a Nobel Peace Prize winner.

 

HH

[Flashermac]

So was Le Duc Tho - who at least had the decency to decline it before continuing the war.

 

 

[chuckwoww]

Let's face it, Presidents of both parties have pretty much ignored the law for so-called "police actions".

 

HH

 

It's not about Republican or Democrat. It's about empire. (This is where phil brings up China. )

 

Anyway Obama is going to pass it all over to NATO soon and everybody knows the US is nothing to do with NATO.

[Flashermac]

 

 

Libya is different than Iran.

 

 

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