FIGJAM Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 I did not say institutional racism does not exist in Thailand I said it is MORE institutionalized in the west. Do you really know the meaning of the term "institutionalized"? You have talked about your everyday life's experiences in the USA (for wich I feel very sorry for you) but the really "institutionalized" discriminations are in the sort of things I mentioned in my post (and there are tons of them). They are "institutionalized" because they are like they are according to the laws and/or "in the open" with even boards to state them. But until you become a threat economically you really have not experienced true gut wrenching racism a la American. Over here, they will SHUT YOU DOWN or try to from the minute you get into public school. I cannot comment on the rest of the west but I have heard similar stories. At least in Thailand I am made to pay double as my white counterparts. Maybe a little tough justice? As I said, the racism is everywhere in the world. Somewhere more, somewhere less. But you definitely cannot compare the kind of racism you have experienced in the west with the kind that you can experience everywhere else. Monochrome man showed you a pretty good example... However I would rather deal with a country who felt like "f*ck everyone else" than a country that my ancestors help build that says "f*ck you anyway". Just 2 observations: 1. Thais divide themself into many classes and they can be very racist towards some of those classes. For example Isaan people. Have you ever heard the comments from a mid-class Bangkok lady about "Isaan monsters" and how they think weird that falangs can find Isaan girls attractive and treat them so good? 2. Did your ancestors come from Africa? Do you know how many MILLIONS of deaths there have been in Africa last year in tribal wars among different ethnic groups for the _only_ reason of racist?? None of them was killed by a white hand... I travelled a lot in the west and in the SE Asia. Being a white, young, rather well off and even enough good-looking guy I've never experienced discrimination on me in my travels _until_ I first went to Thailand (the first SE Asia country I hit). I could really feel the different attitude of people, and it was not pleasent... And, like Monochrome man wrote, the least "bad attitude" was in Isaan and in general in the rural underdeveloped areas. There, in some place I even felt pretty welcome. Remember, we in the west have a lot of laws and warranties for the minorities, elsewhere, more often than not, if you are in trouble only the money can help you... And regarding the USA (that I LOVE) I was in California last year and I've never had the pleasure to meet so many people from so many different ethnic groups in the same place like I did in the States. I thought the expression "melting pot" was coined for the great United States... Ciao, pao. P.S. To not talk about muslim countries (of which I REALLY think shit)... Yes, I'm not exactly the political correct type of guy [ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: pao ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by mykal: I feel that Thais are racist by ignorance and racism in the west is fueled by the desire to keep others "out" or "down". Don't you think that the racism is ALWAYS a matter of ignorance? Ciao, pao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooNoi Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 Why do farang women look down on Thai women? Because farang woman think Thai women are cheap and crazy to sleep with fat, ugly balding man who cannot get sex with farang woman at home! That's why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by pao: [qb]I did not say institutional racism does not exist in Thailand I said it is MORE institutionalized in the west. Do you really know the meaning of the term "institutionalized"? You have talked about your everyday life's experiences in the USA (for wich I feel very sorry for you) but the really "institutionalized" discriminations are in the sort of things I mentioned in my post (and there are tons of them). They are "institutionalized" because they are like they are according to the laws and/or "in the open" with even boards to state them. ** Pao I think you may need to revisit and redefine your own definition of "institutionalized". The history and very foundation of the young USA is based on racism. Votes, laws, government,education, housing, employment, the justice system, marketing, music, movies, sports, the census, charities, etc are all based on some facet of race in America. Unfortunately, it is an indiscernible part of the social fabric. people are rascist and don't even realize it. Some racism in the States is blatant and much of it is subtle. Just because racism and discrimination may not be obvious does not mean it is not "institutionalized". But until you become a threat economically you really have not experienced true gut wrenching racism a la American. Over here, they will SHUT YOU DOWN or try to from the minute you get into public school. I cannot comment on the rest of the west but I have heard similar stories. At least in Thailand I am made to pay double as my white counterparts. Maybe a little tough justice? As I said, the racism is everywhere in the world. Somewhere more, somewhere less. But you definitely cannot compare the kind of racism you have experienced in the west with the kind that you can experience everywhere else. ***I ask you who could be more sensitive to identifying rascism and discrimination? A young caucsian male who never experienced discrimnation until his adult years or a young black man who has experienced it the majority of his life? I think Mykal can uniquely compare his personal experience in America to other places in his travels. Monochrome man showed you a pretty good example... **Monochrome's example is mild. His example reminds me of a truism about the difference between a Southern rascist and a Northern rascist. The Southerner will call you a derogatory name to your face, the Northerner will do it behind your back. The worst type and most harmful rascist is the one you don't know about not the one you can identify. I think Mykals point which you overlook is that at least in Thailand he can see what he is up against. However I would rather deal with a country who felt like "f*ck everyone else" than a country that my ancestors help build that says "f*ck you anyway". Just 2 observations: 1. Thais divide themself into many classes and they can be very racist towards some of those classes. For example Isaan people. Have you ever heard the comments from a mid-class Bangkok lady about "Isaan monsters" and how they think weird that falangs can find Isaan girls attractive and treat them so good? ***I think Mykals point did not concern Thai on Thai racism but rather that as a foreigner, Thais consider him equal to any other foreigner. 2. Did your ancestors come from Africa? Do you know how many MILLIONS of deaths there have been in Africa last year in tribal wars among different ethnic groups for the _only_ reason of racist?? None of them was killed by a white hand... ***What is the relevance of this observation to the previous arguments? The ethnic violence you describe is not the result of racism, if u believe that then I have some authentic Burmese glass rubies to sell you. The ethnic strife which you casully use to support your argument is based on money and power, race is just a convenient ploy used to rally the troops. Same thing happend in Kosovo, Bosnia(remember the ethnic cleansing excuse given for an obvious land grab?)Europe was so afraid of it spreading that they enlisted the USA to save the caucasians from killing each other. Might I add that none of them was killed by a Non-caucasian hand. . . I travelled a lot in the west and in the SE Asia. Being a white, young, rather well off and even enough good-looking guy I've never experienced discrimination on me in my travels _until_ I first went to Thailand (the first SE Asia country I hit). I could really feel the different attitude of people, and it was not pleasent... And, like Monochrome man wrote, the least "bad attitude" was in Isaan and in general in the rural underdeveloped areas. There, in some place I even felt pretty welcome. *** Discrimination sucks when you experience it firsthand huh? Amazing that you went your entire life and thousands of travel miles without being discriminated against(or so you thought)and little old Thailand gave you your first taste. Remember, we in the west have a lot of laws and warranties for the minorities, elsewhere, more often than not, if you are in trouble only the money can help you... And regarding the USA (that I LOVE) I was in California last year and I've never had the pleasure to meet so many people from so many different ethnic groups in the same place like I did in the States. I thought the expression "melting pot" was coined for the great United States... ****The very fact that you have MANY laws in the West to protect minority rights should tell you something. Ciao, pao. P.S. To not talk about muslim countries (of which I REALLY think shit)... Yes, I'm not exactly the political correct type of guy [ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: pao ][/QB] Regards, JJSUSHI [ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: jjsushi ] [ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: jjsushi ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 ROCK ON Old_Hippie!!!!!!! Well put. Wish I had said it myself. Let me add that I have heard a lot of comments by female farang expats which are negatively racist towards Thai women. Of course these farang women would deny being racist and would note that they "have many female Thai friends," but I definitely think many subconciously look down on the average Thai girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 I agree with Old Hippie. Western women generally use sex as a weapon or a reward for good behaviour. Asian women think it's part of life. Someone else here said "I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering if I'll get lucky with my wife this week/month". That sums up western women to me. When a TG lifts covers in the morning, looks down below and says "you horney?", well that sums up Asian women to me. My 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Smittyjp: \I take tons of flack in my office (mostly chicks) for running my houses and it is because they are scared (except for the one who occassionally blows me in the supply closet). Smitty Isn't it always true that the ones that blow you are the most understanding? I think it may have something to do with them being good listeners. They don't talk with their mouths full! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 Flypapillon wrote: "Why do farang women look down on Thai women? Because farang woman think Thai women are cheap and crazy to sleep with fat, ugly balding man who cannot get sex with farang woman at home! That's why!" That just can't be right, as the falang woman would then think that the thai was doing her sisters a favour, by stopping these sleezy old farts pestering them for sex. I've asked this same question of falang women and have found that they usually say one of two things: 1. they've heard that Thai chicks give great bolw jobs (like some natural instinct) and falang women just can't match it; or 2. they're jealous because they like to be able to be a hooker for a day or two, but can't as they'll be branded as a slut by the falang guys. But the Thai girls can shag 5 guys a day and the next guy she meets will think she's sweet as apple pie. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 "one thing they had in common was they enjoyed being a woman and didn't worry about being an equal in every fucking thing" Say no more Smittyjp! That really strikes a chord with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted January 17, 2002 Report Share Posted January 17, 2002 As a white guy who grew up mainly in Califonia's SFO are, I have also been the victim of discrimination. It is about who holds the power in a given situation. Their are several different ethnic groups in this area, all of which have some sort of animosity to the other. Th Koreans are pissed at the Japanese, because of world war two, the Chinese fight amongast temselves over what part of China they come from, and why they are all better then the ABC's (American born Chinese) the blacks and Lations fight about who has a bigger right to be the victim and get the first hand up, the various E. European grops fight about dumd stuff, and all of them hate the white guys, just walk through a predominately asian or Latino public school out here and you will see what I mean. But reguardless of who the victim is, rasicm is caused by the basic need to have control and power. It is the tool people use to keep others down and to make themselves feel better. And we are all guilty of it at times, "there are no innocent bystanders in the crime of everyday life"-so said someone famous once. Now enough of this evil talk and bad vibes, let's get back to the topic of sanuk!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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