Guest Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 Well Nut Girl you have a lot to go on. I think it is a mixture of both racism and jealousy. Don't get me wrong I love my country. But if my country is not perfect I will stand up and say "it ain’t right" and you can take it from there. Thailand is not perfect either. However I have been treated very nicely there and I love that country also. Posted by Pao: Don't you think that the racism is ALWAYS a matter of ignorance"? ++++ No, ignorance is never having been taught or not having knowledge of... When you know the reasons you don't like someone are unjustified based on race, religion or what ever and you don't reevaluate those feelings then that is STUPIDITY. Not taking known information and making appropriate behavior changes based on that knowledge... (my definitions of course) Posted by Pao: 2. Did your ancestors come from Africa? Do you know how many MILLIONS of deaths there have been in Africa last year in tribal wars among different ethnic groups for the _only_ reason of racist?? None of them was killed by a white hand... ++++ Pao, My ancestors did come from Africa my ancestors are also from France. (my great grandmother was white) I live in AMERICA now. I have fight my day to day battles in the country I now have a stake in. Posted by Pao: Do you really know the meaning of the term "institutionalized"? You have talked about your everyday life's experiences in the USA (for which I feel very sorry for you) but the really "institutionalized" discriminations are in the sort of things I mentioned in my post (and there are tons of them). They are "institutionalized" because they are like they are according to the laws and/or "in the open" with even boards to state them. ++++ Well Pao, if you look at the very first prints of the US constitution you will find that there were laws regarding how much a black man was considered a "man". I believe the percentage was 3/5ths. This was done so that the very Christian south, who could not be cruel to fellow mankind, could dehumanize the black man and thus make it ACCEPTABLE to lynch us and do the criminal things they did. There were laws set aside for us regarding our crimes as slaves, the white mans crimes of mastery and the crimes of one master towards another masters slave. There are other instances in the very first constitutional papers. Now since you say it is not blatant in our laws I must remind you that the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights are the precursors to the laws which exist today. Remember there must be a governmental vote every 8 years or so (I may be off on number of years) to ALLOW minorities to be able to continue to vote. Yet you say it is not explicit in our laws. Many of those laws have been MODIFIED to appease the various protesters who demanded change throughout history. Other covert forms of racism continue to exist based on the US Constitution. I understand there is a color code in Thailand’s Constitution also. I am aware of that, were you Pao? I want to keep this subject on helping Nut Girl so I am not going to keep this part of the thread going after this post because after all is said and done my main antagonist is... An admitted racist! (muslim comments) Mykal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 Nut Girl, I don't think you would have a lot of bad experiences if you went to a western country. I think it is worth the risk to try it out and see how it goes. You could visit a few times and see what it's like. A lot depends on which city or place in a country you go to. Also, as your English improves and if you dress and become a bit more "western", I think most people will have no idea where you are from or even care. Where I live in the USA there are a lot of Vietnamese, Cambodians, Koreans, as well as many Chinese. When I sometimes see a white man with an Asian woman, I don't (necessarily) think she's Thai. I think most Americans (at least in the larger cities) have seen so many Asians living amoung them that they don't think about it too much. I have two close friends married to Chinese women (from mainland China). I have noticed as the years went by that their relationship became more relaxed as 1.)her confidence grew with the language and culture and 2.)their circle of friends and co-workers became friends with them and their social "comfort zone" increased. I think it's worth a try if you really care for one another. Shoke Dee -Joe [ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: joeyjojo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 Easy answer ! It's called CELLULITE ! ATTITUDE FEMINISM & UGLY Don't worry about it They are jealous ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 Pao I think you may need to revisit and redefine your own definition of "institutionalized". The history and very foundation of the young USA is based on racism. Votes, laws, government,education, housing, employment, the justice system, marketing, music, movies, sports, the census, charities, etc are all based on some facet of race in America. Unfortunately, it is an indiscernible part of the social fabric. people are rascist and don't even realize it. Some racism in the States is blatant and much of it is subtle. Just like everywhere else, isn't it? That's what I wrote and repeated. In some country this problem is bigger, in some other is smaller. What are you trying to say? That the USA are a top racist country?! Just because racism and discrimination may not be obvious does not mean it is not "institutionalized". This term was first used by Mykals and absolutely does not fit his meaning. This word comes from Latin and its meaning is the same for the Italian (my language) "istituzionalizzato", so in no manner I may have misunderstood it. Something is "institutionalized" when is coded into the laws (i.e. farangs not allowed to buy land in Thailand or own their business and so on). Full stop. I ask you who could be more sensitive to identifying rascism and discrimination? A young caucsian male who never experienced discrimnation until his adult years or a young black man who has experienced it the majority of his life? I think Mykal can uniquely compare his personal experience in America to other places in his travels. This is the point, he wrote that he don't know about other western countries, he only know about his own, the USA. And, I suspect, he also don't know about a lot of other countries. Otherwise I'm sure he wouldn't criticize so much the States compared to other places... By the way, your nick has something to do about Japan? May you please enlighten us about the japananese racism towards us "gaijin" and even other asians? Monochrome's example is mild. A man chased and beated like a dog by a chinese-thai guy is a mild example? Ah, OK... I think Mykals point did not concern Thai on Thai racism but rather that as a foreigner, Thais consider him equal to any other foreigner. But he thinks that Thais are a people who "felt like f*ck everyone else". And my answer was NO, they also fuck each other in different ways and at different levels exactly as they fuck different falangs at a different grade. A lot of people (specially black guys) pointed out this in a different thread focused on black guys visiting Thailand. What is the relevance of this observation to the previous arguments? The ethnic violence you describe is not the result of racism, if u believe that then I have some authentic Burmese glass rubies to sell you. Mmh... interesting, how much? The ethnic strife which you casully use to support your argument is based on money and power, race is just a convenient ploy used to rally the troops. Troops? WHAT troops? I'm not talking for example about Ethiopia vs Eritrea (where power is also, but not only, involved). I'm talking about tribal wars in the poorest parts of Africa where the money was never seen... I'm talking about bands of civilians raiding enemy villages cutting heads and hands with their machetes. I'm talking about slavery and slave trade among different ethnic groups and so on. By the way, do you know that a lot of the black people dragged in the USA by white slave dealers was sold by their african black cousins? Not pleasant to say and not pleasant to hear but still true, and like I said, I hate politically correctness... Same thing happend in Kosovo, Bosnia(remember the ethnic cleansing excuse given for an obvious land grab?) First, Kosovo and Bosnia are two different questions. Second, why do you think that the "foundation of the young USA is based on racism". I see only land grabbing... Got it? Third, kosovo region was part of Serbia and kosovarians were administrated by serbians. Kosovo people didn't have the same rights of the serbians and this was coded in the laws. What was I saying about institutionalization?... Europe was so afraid of it spreading that they enlisted the USA That was a very nice one! Europe enlisting USA!! to save the caucasians from killing each other. Might I add that none of them was killed by a Non-caucasian hand. . . Here a big question arise... What exactly do you mean with "caucasians"? Is caucasian also the muslim kosovo people (from Albanian ethnic group)? Did you remember that the russians (the proper caucasians) were all for the serbians and didn't want to help the kosovo because they have absolutely nothing in common with them (nor history, nor religion, nor culture, nor language, nor even somatic characteristics)? Those are the things the racists everywhere appeal to. Discrimination sucks when you experience it firsthand huh? No, discrimination sucks always, everywhere and whoever is the target! (well, maybe except the "real" muslims...) Amazing that you went your entire life and thousands of travel miles without being discriminated against(or so you thought) No, so I felt. And that's enough for me. and little old Thailand gave you your first taste. First but not last. As I wrote Thailand was only my first SE Asia country... Let alone muslim countries... Anyway I didn't state that Thailand is the raciest country in the world nor I said that I particularly dislike LOS, I'm planning right now my next stay in Thailand (about 3 months)! I simply cannot stand the "the west is the bad part of the world" bullshits. The very fact that you have MANY laws in the West to protect minority rights should tell you something. Yes, that we do care about them... Ciao, pao. 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Old Hippie Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 Nut Girl, Like I said, sooner or later, everyone is the victim. Here in the states, at least in this area, it is less of a problem. As for the rest of the country...well, depends on where you go and who you run into, same as any place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 Yo NutGirl - The verbal putdowns you've experienced are nothing more than jealousy manifesting itself into vicious hate speech. But instead of thinking about it too much or getting mad over it, read something I got from our Thai Temple here in America: Dukkha (suffering) creates wisdom. We experience suffering, recognize it, and try to get rid of it. If we always think too much, we have to try to solve the problem of thinking. When overthinking is reduced, there will be no problem. Those who are prone to anger, because they do not restrain it, allow themselves to be angry so frequently that it is difficult to cure. If we know we become angry easily, we should try to reduce our anger by promoting loving-kindness. As this builds up, anger will be reduced and we will become calm. Thus we solve the problem by recognizing its cause and curing it at its source. Perhaps I can crystallize these words into another lesson I learned at our temple. That is, ignore and stay away from evil people who gossip, lie and say evil things. Instead, spend your time with those who truly love you. Add this to your life philosophy and I guarantee you'll be as right as rain. Generally speaking, it seems Asian women give the male species far more care, love, understanding and feminine nurturing than most western women are capable of providing. I could go on, but I'll refrain from saying more what others have already waxed so elegantly thus... [ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: pjacktpa ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 Originally posted by pjacktpa: "Generally speaking, it seems Asian women give the male species far more care, love, understanding and feminine nurturing than most western women are capable of providing." A round of applause ... I agree whole-heartedly. The problem is that Western women have a bigger ego than their Asian counterparts, or - to put it differently - they can put up better with our big Western male egos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 Yo Mykal - Read your numerous posts on discrimination and couldn't figure one thing out. Namely, how in the world do you attribute "ignorance" to the price discrimination levied to non-Thais? The Webster Reference Dictionary of the English Language, Vol. 1 defines the word "ignorance" as, quote: The state of being ignorant, or of lacking knowledge; the condition of not being cognizant or aware of. Prices on accomodation, admission, food, retail items, etc. etc. etc., all cost more to foreigners than to Thais. Do you honestly believe, and expect us to believe with you, that Thais have no idea that non-Thais pay more? That if confronted about it, the typical response would be, "Oh, but I was unaware, I was ignorant as to what I was charging?" Dewd...puh-leeze. Judging by the stories posted by folks who've actually encountered the practice, most Thais either stare blankly ahead, look down and mumble, smile idiotically, or defiantly offer no service in response. That doesn't sound to "ignorant" to me. Actually, it sounds like everyone knows exactly what's going on. Having an accounting background, I'd love to see how most of the businesses cook, er, keep their books, and to see the Thai version of GAAP... Sheeeeesh! Wake up and call something for what it is, instead of sugarcoating it for what it's not. [ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: pjacktpa ] [ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: pjacktpa ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIGJAM Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 I want to keep this subject on helping Nut Girl so I am not going to keep this part of the thread going after this post because after all is said and done my main antagonist is... An admitted racist! (muslim comments) OK, I respect your will to not keep this part of the thead so I'm not replying to your post but your last statement does need a reply. I'm in no manner a racist, if you would have known me in person (and it would be a pleasure for me) and not thru a keyboard you would have been absolutely sure on this. Prolly you think about muslims as a race (maybe arabs?) hence your (BIG) mistake. A muslim is a adherent of islam and he can be a white Italian, a black American and from any other race on earth. I have studied islam from a social-cultural-political point of view and my opinion (am I entitled to have one on them or only the muslims are entitled to have their own on our culture?) is that they are the worst bunch of motherfuckers on earth. Full stop. Bear in mind, this is a _political_ opinion as the religion (especially for them) is only part of politics. In fact, in muslim countries the politics is only part of religion. All the best, pao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2002 Report Share Posted January 18, 2002 pjackpta I will send you a private message. Mykal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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