Alcoholics Annonymous

[Fiery Jack]

Old Hippie said:Regarding AA...ah, what ever works I guess, frankly, I don't need to sit in a room full of people with stories of fucked up lives...

 

Roger that one. Whatever gets you through the nights, and the days. True story ? I had a mate in England who was worried about his boozing. He sat in on an AA meeting to see what kinds of high jinks went on. He said it was "full of losers" and so depressing that he walked out and went straight to the pub next door and got plastered.

 

I recall Mr Ozzy Osbourne, himself an impressive alcoholic wagon-faller-offer, on his MTV telly show once shrewdly observing of AA and his dislike of the outfit: "I mean, if there was a bloke who'd lost his leg in an accident, d'you think he'd want to spend his life sitting in a room with loads of other one-legged people moaning on and on about how they lost their legs, or wouldn't he rather just fucking get on with his life?"

 

Okay, I paraphrase, but I thought it a very wise pronouncement.

 

Almost all the AA advocates I have met have struck me me as humourless dullards, often quite scary ones. They exude a patronising holier-than-thou attitude and have a maniacal look in their eyes I do not trust. To repeat myself, they seem to think they have some kind of monopoly on sobriety. They are boring and smug and single-mindedly believe and insist that theirs is the only true way and that everyone else is misguided and doomed and damned. People like that can be dangerous and irritating and are usually best avoided. ::

 

AA meetings are meant to be great places for picking up birds, though. Loads of basket-cases with fucked-up lives and no mates, all frothing at the gash and gasping for shag. :hubba: Quick sly nip of vodka in their breaktime coffee, and they go like the clappers, apparently.

 

Cheers,

 

jack

[Mekong]

 

A long posting Sorry

 

 

Back From the Brink

 

After a 5 day scene rather reminiscent of Ewan McGregors character ?Renton? in Trainspotting, sweats, shakes, shits, puking the works I finally managed to keep a whole bowl of Campbells Chicken and Sweet Corn soup down for 4 hours. I decided to try some solids, Cambells Cream of Mushroom Soup with 2 full slices of bread.

Feeling content I was lying watching some music DVD and I drifted away into a non- drink induced slumber only to wake up about 4 hours later with a strange feeling in my stomach, not a pain more of a rumbling. After a few moments contemplation it finally dawned on me, I was HUNGRY, I could not remember the last time I held felt hungry, ?Was it June 1990 after The Stone Roses Spike Island Gig? I thought to myself, then I realized that was the last time I had the mis pleasure of a Farang Women, I stopped thinking.

 

I don?t know about others who have had this problem, but for me the greatest tell tale sign was my eating habits, I am a lanky streak of piss as it is, but I just could not eat, even if I thought I was hungry I would order the smallest meal on the menu and then when only half way through it feel my throat contacting and had images of doing a ?Mr Creosote? if I had one more mouthful. Some people thought I was Bulomic.

This led to social isolation, in my line of work I often find myself in foreign countries staying in hotels, work mates ask you out to dinner of an evening, and I found myself making excuses about some hyperthetical work I needed to complete that evening rather than face the embarrassment of eating in public. This in itself then led to more drinking, the accelerated path into a spiral of self oblivion.

 

I digress?

 

I was hungry, next thing I know I am in the kitchen, pots and pans flying, knife chopping veggies, the smell of garlic being fried coming from the hob, subconsciously I was cooking, consciously I am thinking to myself ?I Cant Cook ? Can I? Not the greatest food in the world, but to me it was exquisite, a guy who?s cooking skills had fallen to grabbing a 2 month old can of Corned Beef from the fridge, whilst getting another drink?, then hacking away at it with my leatherman. I was chuckling at myself, eating a mouthful saying outloud ?Mekong You Made this?, doing a little gig around the table then proceeding to continue the process mouthful by mouthful until the plate was clean. If anyone could have seen me they would have been asking themselves ?What is he eating? , but I can promise it was only prawns.

I surprised myself even further by cleaning the kitchen and everything straight away.

 

It was about 1 AM and I was hyper, brain flying off in all directs, I needed to concentrate on one specific subject but what, then whilst having a piss I saw it, (no not my todger) in the toilet library hidden under a well thumbed version of ?S.Tsow?s Thai Lite? was my old copy of ?The Fundamental?s of Newton?s Law?, I go to Sit and Think not Shit and Stink, I had the evil thought of preparing for AA meeting later that day. I was looking forward to the AA meeting, my mind had been refreshed, my stomach replenished and not one single thought of Alcohol for the first time in a long time, 4 AM I drifted off to sleep and I do believe I actually dreamed.

 

The First Day of the Rest of my Life

 

I awake, but am I still dreaming? This is not my body, where is the headache, the pain in the kidneys, I can sit up without feeling I am staining every muscle in my body, Look at the clock it says 8:45AM, I shake my head in disbelief, my eyes had focused in less than 250 ms not the 10-15 seconds of bleary vision usually experienced when awakening from a drunken slumber. I fell around, yes this is me showered and in no time a find myself brewing a pot of coffee and preparing breakfast, it came as natural as reaching into the fridge and grabbing a bottle did about a week ago, the difference being I felt alive not lethargic.

 

3 hours to the meeting, and it is only 15 minutes to get there, what to do what to do? I know I will go out! Yet another new concept to me, for so long I had associated going out with Clubs, Bars, Shopping for Alcohol, did people go out for other reasons, I was soon to find out. I checked my cell phone was charged and that I had a blank 1 GB flash card it, let myself out of the apartment and took my first steps back into society. I found it very easy to do normal things staying away from bars, a quick hair cut, sandwich and a coffee at deli-franch and before I knew it time to head to the meeting. I waited till had all gone inside, and waited for them to all settle down and gave them 5 minutes to get into it, right the time was here, set the cell phone onto voice record and walked in apologizing for my late arrival, first time etc, and was told to take a seat.

 

The Meeting

 

After listening to 10 more minutes of heavily religious biased mumbo jumbo and self congratulatory drive I have ever had the misfortune to endure (it was so bad I was trying to remember some vogon poetry) it finally got around to me asked to introduce myself.

 

What Follows is a True Transcript of the Meeting it was only meant to be done for prosperity, but I had so much fun I thought I would share it with you

 

M Mekong

C Chairman

A Attendee (any of them)

 

C Can you Please Introduce yourself

M Mekong ? And I am an Alcoholic

A (snigger)

M Whats so funny

A Well Mekong is an ironic name for a Alcoholic

M In what respect?

C Well it is the name of a well know Thai whiskey

M It also happens to be the name of one of the greatest rivers in Asia, a river that gives livelihood to millions of people in this region, many of whom are Thai. Do you know recognize the significance of water in Thai Society, Songkran and Loy Kraetong are more than an excuse to get drunk, these festivals are deeply influenced by the Thai beliefs. Yet you, think if refers to an alcoholic drink, look outside see which country we are in you Bigot.

C+A (Open Mouthed )

C S.s.so you are Buddhist then I take it?

 

M How on earth did you come to that conclusion

C The Name Mekong

M So, not just a bigot, an opinionated bigot I see. Based on one totally loose fact you can ascertain my religion, why not let?s just stick to fact and not assumption, we may get along but I doubt it. ? FYI Information I am not Buddhist?

A What are you then

M Same as you a Bloody Alcoholic, it didn?t realize denomination was an issue

Just lets just say I am a Muslim

C You Don?t look like a Muslim

M Yet again preconceived ideas, how am I supposed to look wearing my dishbab, big bushy beard and an AK-47 slung over my shoulder shouting Allah Akhibar and waving my prayer beads. For all you know I may be married to a Muslim Thai lady.

C So you Married a Southern Thai Muslim and Converted

M Who is this fool? I used the phrases ?Lets Just Say? and ?For all you know? do you have problems with those words, I cannot get anymore basic than using monosyllables

C I don?t Understand

M Listen everyone, he can speak the truth now and again

A (Stiffled Laughter)

C So what faith are you then?

M What does it matter?

C I?d like to know what type of person I am arguing with?

M This is not an argument it is a structured debate, if you feel intimidated by me and that I am arguing with you, then that is a sign of your own insecurity based on your lack of knowledge or misplaced ideology ? and if you must know I am of no faith not that it is of any matter to you.

A (two of them doubled up at this stage)

C So you know nothing of the teachings of the great book then

M Here we go, ? not that it has anything to do with you, but since you are so persistent here is my take on things. The first 3 years of my life from birth were spent in St Bernadettes Convent I presume you know what one of them is, then I was adopted by, of course, a very strict catholic family after attending St Josephs Infant School , St Josephs Junior School I then went to Del La Salle Boys school (Salford UK for American readers) where my teachers were addressed as Brother Luke and Brother Benedict etc, I was forced to learn Latin and recite from the Bible in that defunct language. In all lessons except one I could ask a Brother a question about what I was being taught, and he could answer it via step by step explanation based on known or demonstrated facts. The odd one out was religious studies, the answer was ?The Bible Says So? Are you seeing the Pattern. So by the time I was 18 and moved out from family and onto Campus at UMIST, I was away from religion for the first day of my life. My take on all things now is that if ?Amat Quod Erat Demonstrandum? , excuse my latin, therefore it does not exist. Scientific facts

And you point is

A (Shriek of Laughter and door slamming as someone cant take it anymore)

C (visibly shaken and trying to regain control) well how do explain all this? (waving arms around)

M This room (moving arms out slightly) or the planet (arms outstretched)

C The planet you Pedantic fool

M I am not the fool you are, we determined that fact earlier, I was merely defining the full scope of your intended question before giving you the correct answer

A (Uncontrollable Laughter bordering on hysterics)

M Simple all this can be explained by Science, so what is your take on it then?

C Planet Earth was created in the image of the good lord himself

M How does one arrive at that conclusion

C (Slams Bible on Table) In says so in Here

M (Takes our Pen and Paper and writes MEKONG IS AN ALIEN on it and places it on the table) In that case I am an Alien, I must be it says so here.

C Rubbish You just wrote that down

M (Clap Clap Clap) I see you are learning slowly, let me explain ?

A (Settled down now and listening)

M ? what you are trying to say is because I wrote that on a piece of paper and cannot back up my statement then it is untrue, I counter argue that all you have is bound sheets of paper with words printed on them and call it a bible with a lot of unproven statements strung together that I am supposed to believe that? What is the Fundamental difference between our two exhibits

C This is Pathetic

M Not Pathetic Science, only those who don?t understand call it pathetic, as Albert Einstein Said ? Science without Religion is Lame, Religion without Science is Blind ?. Lets try something else (writes MEKONG IS A MILLIONAIRE on Paper) and what about that then true or false.

C That is debatable

M (Opens BKK Book) Can you please read the Balance?

C 1,011,762.28 Bath.

M So, having seen that you admit I have proven my last statement correct?

C (Grudgingly) I suppose so

M Quod Erat Demonstandum. Out of three exhibits, one has been proven, and 2 are both open to debate. In may case I may or not be an Alien and in your case God May or not Exist, yet you insists he does with no proof

C GOD DOES EXIST

M Based on your thinking I AM AN ALIEN, do you believe in Aliens then?

C No I do Not I am not a Crackpot like you

M So if you don?t believe in Aliens then I am not an Alien, if I am not an Alien then God does not exist . We have been through this from a scientific viewpoint and you agreed with me every step of the way, you were understanding simple Calculus. But now you still insist that God exists are you trying to disproof Sir Isaac Newton now and not just me, a bold statement for a man who does not understand ?Lets Just Say? is an ?OR? statement and not a given fact. Go ahead try maybe God will help you out, but be careful I am an Intellectual Alien.

C You Need Help

M I don?t need it, I have it, OK you profess that God is responsible for all this (waving arms), majority of which can be disproven by science, please allow me to explain evidence of ?Influences from a Higher Level? On Salisbury Plain in UK, there are 3 strange monuments very close to each. The first is Stonehenge, even without getting too deep into the 3 stones of the Aubery Ring which are out of true circle and the mathematics behind that that makes Stonehenge unique in itself as the worlds oldest Lunar clock, how do you explain how they got the blues stones 80 miles uphill from the coastline where the rock is from. Also on the Plain are the Avery Stones and the Uffington White Horse. If one was to connect these 3 places with 3 lines you have a triangle.

Now lets look 2 other structures the 3 Great Pyramids of Gisa and the 3 Halls of the Holy Mosque, again join the lines and form the triangles.

Now you telling me it is a coincidence that all 3 triangles have identical angles, and therefore line lengths a perfect ratio of each other, especially when one considers that there is a fourth triangle that matches these 3 the 3 main stars of the constellation Pegasus which is also represented at the White Horse at Uffington.

C (Looking Shell Shocked) That proves nothing

M OK, lets up the Anti, if you were to put a stick in the ground in the center of Stonehenge, The shadows cast by the Sun at midday on both Summer and Winter Solstice Form a Perfect North-South / East-West Cross. If the same was done in the Center of Edinburgh Castle the Cross would be NW-SE / SW-NE, what do you see?

C The crosses on the English and Scottish Flags respectively

M And the only other place on Planet earth where the Stonehenge cross is formed is in the middle of the pacific, on Easter Island, right in the center of those inexplicable Statues, and to top that off if you draw an arc from Stonehenge to Easter Island , the ratio to the length of that arc and the radius of earth is identical to the same ratios of the Islamic Cresent and the angle of the tilt is also identical.

C That Proves nothing

M Well I can see I am well past your level of basic understanding, I have just tried to prove scientifically that there is a scientifical relationship between things and, based on the time they were built there was most probably outside assistance from a Higher Influence, and since your learnings denounce all forms of science, of which mathematics is a branch, then the only conclusion is that Aliens at some point have existed.

C I can see this is getting nowhere, see everyone next meeting, everyone except you Mekong

M I am sorry that the only way that you can deal with someone of an obviously superior Intelligence than yourself , and can see through the charade of Religion is to ignore and then to deny that person, especially Since Ignorance and Denial are the stages an Alcoholic is at before seeking help.

C GET OUT OF MY MEETING NOW

M Cant be soon enough, another 10 minutes in your presence would be enough to drive any Educated man to FUCKIN?DRINK

 

Exit stage left , I was a little disappointed he had broken so soon, I had still not got into my full array of Debating facts, the logical extension from Stonehenge would of course been the Freemasons, I can debate the reverse side of a Dollar Bill for an hour without stopping for breath, but at least the recording was crystal clear. I heard ?Mex Hold up Mate? and it was 2 off the A?s from the meeting who I had observed listening attentively and we decided to go for a coffee and landed in a joint with free Internet, and over general chit chat I was surfing for quotes, Friedrich Nietzsche went down well and got them hooked into Deep Thought ( the Number 42, Chaos Theory, Randomization etc etc), then they stumped me with the Million Dollar Question, if Alcohol is not the Answer and Religion is not the Answer what is?

 

I was stumped, I knew that I had been taking this path for a reason but what was it, why did I exercise my brain again, why did I go debating with a Bible Basher on the merits of Proven over Unproven, then suddenly it struck, like a thunderbolt fired from a parallel universe by the Great Newton himself, lets work it out.

 

The napkin was hardly unfurled when the pen hit the (tissue) paper.

 

Q. IsAlcohol Cause Major Problem A Yes

Q Is No Alcohol Cause Major Problems A No

Q Do Problems make you Happy A No

Q Do problems make you Sad A Yes

 

 

Therefore Alcohol is the problem, and problem causes unhappiness, so from this we can say that

 

Happiness equals Mekong without Alcohol H=M-A

Sadness equals Mekong with Alcohol S=M+A

 

Lets Combine Happiness and Sadness as Life L=H*S = (M-A)*(M+A)

 

F(oil) M2

O(outer) MA

I(nner) -MA

L(ast) 0

 

So L = (M2)+(MA)+(-MA)+0

L = M Sqaured

 

So LIFE is MEKONG Squared Identify the Cause of the problem, a root it out and live life, simple calculus proves it, we exchanged numbers and I disappeared in a puff of logic.

 

The Future

 

Who knows, one day at a time that?s all. I can open the fridge and see some beers there and not paying attention to them, not what I was going there for, but still have then there for when friends come around, no point in making them suffer because of my problem. I will probably still hang out in bars, but guaranteed first few times will be with a couple of teetotal friends

 

Thanks to Alcoholics Anonymous, who in their own indirect way gave me my positive state of mind back, and thanks to you guys for being an excellent sounding board for the ravings of a mad man and the support you have given.

[short-time]

? Should anyone want to read what is really in the AA program about religion, here's he link.?

 

Praise the lord, the end is near, halleluiah, hells bells, Jesus is lord... Whatever floats your boat and gets you off the sauce is ok by me.

 

I think the link you posted only proves my point. I?m not insensitive to those with drinking problems or to those of the Christian faith.

 

Fact is I also have a drinking problem. Fortunately mine is largely limited to the time I spend in LOS ? no, please do not attempt to link this to the denial phase referenced to earlier and commonly accepted as one of the steps in the progression of alcoholism.

 

In my case this is reality. When I?m in LOS I hit the bars every night and as a result consume a lot of beer, after all, I?m on vacation and am there to have a good time. At home I don?t go to bars, so other than a few beers on weekends ? no problem.

 

For those of us who reject Christianity and would rather read Playboy than the bible, I think a behavioral modification approach is a more effective and better alternative. And, not only for drinking and substance abuse problems, but any behavioral disorder. For starters it's based on proven science not faith in the lord.

 

ST

 

Your religion is just superstition ? The Rolling Stones

[Nervous_Dog]

ST - I know what you mean, I also use to drink up a storm in Bangkok, mainly because the beer got warm quick, and it was hot,

 

Solution, sounds girly, but I stick a LOT of ice in my beer now, and prob drink half/half without realizing it

[bibblies]

Just curious: if Christians aren't meant to drink, why did Jesus turn water into wine?

 

In fact, isn't wine all over the bible? I don't know about other people but whatever I'm reading or watching influences my drinking. If I'm reading a Raymond Chandler book and Marlowe's having a whisky or gimlet, I want one! When watching Bond, I'm going "Mmmm.. vodka martini looks good". If I read the bible, I'd be desperate for wine with bread, olives and pomegranates.

[happyfarang2547]

Who said anything about being a Christian? I don't think I used the "G" word either. Why does everyone think I'm a holy roller? I do believe there is a higher intelligence than I personally can muster. And I think we came from somewhere and are going somewhere when we are done here. Doesn't matter much, does it? We're here now. I haven't been able to brand my system of thought yet. I know enough about the major religions of the world to know they are more political control systems than any type of worship of a deity. I like talking to people who don't see things as I do. Some would distance themselves from those with other opinions. but I feel a genuine attempt of understand others is the way to solve a lot of problems in society. People whom are acquainted and understand and respect each other don't usually invade each other and don't blow each other up.

 

Off topic rant sorry. Drinking.....I do not because I may not be able to stop again. There is no superior spiritual evolution through long term sobriety though. If someone can go on a vacation and drink and come home and stop, and they have fun, it's no ones business. I don't want to post what I really think of most long term AA'ers here because I think it's a good place to get started and don't want to discourage someone from going. But, one should expect to move their life forward at some point and not continue to swim in the endless round of "how it was" war stories. Those are great to establish a foundation but let's talk about what's good now! There's damn little of that in AA meetings.

[bibblies]

That's a bit of a rant... Sounds like you need a drink.

 

Tee hee. Tee hee.

[Old Hippie]

I am an alcoholic, and also an ordained minister. So well believe in me, as I have credibility...and please, send me money...

[David_66_UK]

Great post! - but perhaps IMHO the AA meeting was not really the place for it - if folk are getting help from AA (as well as getting their car fixed? ) then whether or not you agree with the AA program or realise it is not for you then IMHO you should really leave them to it.

 

Del La Salle Boys

 

I was a different branch to you, but the religious outcome was fortunately the same :D

 

I kinda let and let live nowadays with the religious stuff -if it is Jezus, Buddha or the Man on the Moon that floats someones boat or gives comfort and doesn't impinge on me, then no worries. Unless I see them trying to use religion to sh#t on someone I know and like.

 

I am not quite up with you on the debating front, but my two main arguments are:-

 

1) if their wasn't a God, then someone would invent one (to control folk by being the providers of the "answers" to the unknowns)............ and all through human history and in all cultures they have been invented to serve these purposes.

 

2) I have nothing against their being a God, indeed I would actually like their to be one, as at the least ever lasting life must have at least 1 or 2 attractions - but I would also like Santa Claus to be real, but me wishing it so or believing it to be true does not make Santa real.

 

I didn't really want to hijack this thread with religious mumbo jumbo, serious stuff the booze and hope OP sorts things out for himself - Like another poster I have come to a happy enough compromise (which works for me), I restrict my drinking to Thailand.............away from work and folk who know me.

 

I actually like being sober in recent years, and do notice the difference in me and after a few months in Thailand (propping up bars 24/7) I actaully start looking forward to getting back on the wagon.

 

I would guess that many folk who know me (and especially those who used to know me!) would say I have a drink problem (and I couldn't really disagree - but for me the excessive (extremely) drinking has really been a symptom rather than purely the cause and nowadays I am a lot more mellow all round......... which proabbly accounts for the drop in drinking, as well as my age). Have never woken up needing a drink, maybe because I have always only very rarely drunk at home - so for me mentally it's been more of a Social / Anti-Social pastime. Of course it has f#cked up lots of things for me - it definately affects me mentally, for at least a week or so after my last session.

 

I have tried to doing the Thai Bars sober, but I just find it too depressing.............. so if I ever gave up compleletly I would not be back to the LOS.

 

Finally, I have never been able to "hold my drink", but have been "blessed" with hollow legs, quite a useful combination for me as I really enjoy binge drinking and getting completely 1000000% off my face. :: :: ::

[happyfarang2547]

The only other threads I've seen that generate as much emotion are the one's about Cambodia, so I have to ask a simple question.

 

Does anyone know where I can find an AA meeting in Cambodia?