GTG? What defines her?

[greg]

Steffi

 

If I have misread your post I apologise however.

 

A Girl is not good if she is an unmarried Non-Virgin.

 

That is complete bolloks.

[greg]

Regardng the definition.

 

Is it noit simple

A Thai Girl who is of good character

It's all in the name.

[JJsushi]

Says steffi:

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I would still like to see a distinction made b/w somebody who has had any history in the nightlife industry and somebody who was a virgin when they married. I don't wish to offend anybody but it's my thinking that the latter is of better character than the former.

---

 

So as to not mistake your meaning, are you saying that a woman who is a virgin at marriage has better character than a woman who is not? Maybe you are you saying that a woman who was in the nightlife industry but retained her virginity until married is of a better character than a woman who has not retained her virginity in the nightlife industry? Your comparison uses the occupation nightlife descriptor for one and only a physical description of virginity for another.

Do virgins who perform 1000 blowjobs prior to marriage still maintain their better character than a prostitute? I knew plenty of girls in my student years who would give oral sex but not vaginal becuse they didn't want to get pregnant or they wanted to hold onto their virginity.

[Guest]

>>>What makes one choose to work vs not choosing to work when facing the same economic pressures at home, I have yet to read any plausible answer. <<<

 

the same all over again.

you make one fundamental mistake in your thinking - you only think in terms of economical pressure. there are a lot more contributing factors you neglect.

first of all, you neclect the individuum. we are people and not engines and don't react the same to the same stimulum. which does not qualify people, just shows that people are different. it is all question of action and reaction. seen with people, the same action does not result in the same reaction. it does not say anything about morals or character.

then, a lot has to do with the family. i hope i can help you with the example of my missus and her peers. she is from an extremely poor background and belongs to one of the many minorities in the country, so you could say that she comes from a background prone to working in the nightlife. but her father was very strict, but tought her as well a set of moral codes, so that when the time came for her to decide if she should enter the business like it comes to almost all women of her socioeconomic background she decided not to enter the nightlife. a lot of her peers though did not have such a strict upbringing and went into the life.

one recently died of AIDS. in her years of working the life she bought land and house for her family. was she a bad girl? i don't think so. she just had the misfortune of not having such a strong willed father as my missus had.

 

if you really want an answer to your question, you should learn the language and live for a while in a village, get really involved in that sector of society. if you don't, i guess you will always ask the same question without getting a satisfying answer.

 

 

[Guest]

>>>I would still like to see a distinction made b/w somebody who has had any history in the nightlife industry and somebody who was a virgin when they married. I don't wish to offend anybody but it's my thinking that the latter is of better character than the former. I will accept like many other people that there are a lot of women in that industry because they have to be and not because they want to be. It should be truely said that those who want to be are not to be considered GTGs. (Define "want" as those who choose to stay in that industry when they are offered an opportunity out of it)<<<

 

 

i think you should differentiate here between what is a 'good girl' for you (which you stated here, virgin etc.) and what might be a definition of a 'GTG' (which i believe is not possible).

it is a crude simplification of reality to separate people along those lines. you neglect the most important points - socioeconomic pressures, familypressures, cultural backgrounds. the multitude of human behaviour cannot be judged that easily, you can't put on labels like 'good' and 'bad' without taking all the contributing factors into account. and there are so many, that you would need a computer which has not been invented yet to formalise and define human nature.

in psychology there is something called 'the black box' a point which is not explainable, an axiom. if you stick with labelling people than human nature will stay a mystery, you try the easy way around the black box. it does help to accept certain things without labelling or qualifying them and move on from that a bit deeper.

 

[cardinalblue]

Fly,

 

You basically reinforced my thinking with your answer. I never said they were like machines. Each person brings a complex set of circumstances and beliiefs/morals to decide to enter or not enter the business.

 

I hear the excuse mainly from falrangs and thai girls alike that the women enter due to economic pressure.

 

As you pointed out with your example, there is a moral beleif system for each girl. It will range from very strong morality to a very weak one. How they obtain their value system comes from family, peers, school, role-models, own experiences, etc.

 

Your case even though example of one supports my thinking the morality system of each girl is significant in their decision-making when it comes to working bar. That was my whole point of my earlier thread. A BG's morality system is not the same as non-BGs at least in terms of keeping them out of a bar..

 

I have spoken to a number of BGs who expressed that working bar is "bad/no good" (their words not mine) yet their morality still is not strong enough to prevent them from doing it. Their combo of thinking and actions is different than from a non-BG's thinking and behaviors. It is an issue of degree on their morality spectrum. You will see different degrees even within BGs based on the type of venues they work and what jobs they do within those venues.

 

As to your example of the bad girl, i would say her morality sytem was not enough to keep her from working bar. Whether you wish to judge her as a bad girl or not is up to you. But this whole GTG defintion seems to be around whether a girl works in a bar or not. It doesn't mean it is a complete reflection of her character traits as there many nice girls working bar. But how we seem to use the expression GTG, she would be exempt from a GTG label.

 

As to learning the language and living in a village, well i don't need to move to a village to learn the language unless you feel my language training in BKK is inadeqaute? No interest in learning dialects.

 

As to experiencing village life in general, i have other passions in my llife that i would not be able to do in the village. It comes down to priorities and i am better served in BKK for now.......

 

Cardinalblue

[cardinalblue]

Fly,

 

You seem to use a lot of of references to Psychology. To let you know where my thinking is usually coming from, I was trained in behavioral psychology.

 

Yet, in trying to dissect your psychological thinking and where you are coming from, it is hard to tell if you support any psychological ideologies, patterns of thinking or accepted schools of thought....

 

Cardinalblue

[think_too_mut]

>Your case even though example of one supports my thinking the morality system of each girl is significant in their decision-making when it comes to working bar. That was my whole point of my earlier thread. A BG's morality system is not the same as non-BGs at least in terms of keeping them out of a bar..

 

The closest I could get to that answer - bgs tend to take their bar careers as a desease that can go away. When (and if) it is over - to rationalize that way.

 

"I was working bar then" is a catch-all excuse. Something like "I was sick". And the "sickness" may come back.

 

Why did she get "sick" in the first place? No real answer, just as if asked why did she contract a physical sickness. 95% of women in Thai in the same situation stay away or don't even think of engaging in the scene.

 

When pressed, bgs may say - "I wanted to find a farang, wanted money, good life. If my man comes my first day in the bar, good for me. All I had was my body, a few rote learned English phrases and my smile".

 

That brings them (bgs) to the level of those GTGs who want the same but have much more powerful skills and ways of finding one. They can do that in a manner pretty much similar to what GFGs do in the West.

I would guess - the goal is as important as the means used to acomplish it. IMO, that differentiates bgs and GTGs.

 

Why are they left with such a vast gap in available means (and the need in the first place) is something Thais have to have a look into themselves.

[Guest]

you did misunderstand me.

the examples i have given you were not qualitative in regards to morality. you may interprete the factor morality into what i said, but that is the easy way out of a very complex situation. but then, as you said, you were trained in behavioral psychology, which as far as i can remember always tries to summarise human behavior. good for the different forms of conditioning, but sucks in regards of motivations IMHO. but please, i am only very superficially trained in psycholgy, i don't think that i could hold myself in a discussion on that subject. i have always tended more to psychoanalyses though, was more into human nature.

 

 

>>>As to learning the language and living in a village, well i don't need to move to a village to learn the language unless you feel my language training in BKK is inadeqaute?<<<

 

language is not just the training in spoken communication. i guess you know watzlawieck and his theories on communication.

experiencing the village life you will get closer to the thai black box, especially to the answers you are looking for regarding morality etc.

 

 

>>>As to experiencing village life in general, i have other passions in my llife that i would not be able to do in the village. It comes down to priorities and i am better served in BKK for now....... <<<

 

that's OK. but at some point you might want to get the answers to the questions you asked, and then an extended stay in a village is elemantary. i can tell you here anything, but only personal experience and involvement over a longer period of time will give you the right answers.

 

 

[steffi]

Yes you have misread my post.