The Definative Crackdown Thread

[jacko]

Good, glad to hear this. It is just the luck of the draw. Last time I hit SC it was the day after police raids and there wasn't a bum crack on the whole soi. Off to Nana and was surrounded by them.

I am going to have to get one of those damn cell/mobile phones and will take text messages to organise my prowls.

 

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

I was agreeing with the comment that many people seem to think that those living here are not allowed to bitch about government policies. I do not see where I said anything that you are writing here.

 

Sanuk!

 

[Guest]

It's funny to see how some foreigners are thinking that just their beloved 'adult entertainment scene' is slowly killed these days. And how they think for sure this will be the end of all fun here.

 

I'm not that worried at all. First off all not only the sexy bars that cater mainly foreigners have to deal with tighter rules, it's something that can be seen in many businesses. This time, the huge massage parlours that cater mainly Thai are in trouble. Most karaoke bars had their share of limitations already. Internet cafes and cheap dail up internet acccess: rules, rules, rules. So, in general please stop complaining about the fake idea that this government is only trying to make life for foreigners less fun.

 

The current movement of thighter ruling when it comes to entertainment is something that fits perfectly in the development cycle of the Thai society. While trying to move up at the worldwide economic scale again, the current government tries to guide the Thai families to a saver, more stable and productive way of life, something that can be seen in many countries around the world. And in stead of trying to educate their people, they chose for tigther ruling. Bad luck for us, but not the end of all fun.

 

Because the real reason why we have such a good time here, originates in the heart and soul of the Thai people. They are born with a huge 'sanuk gene', like to live their life 'sabai sabai' and are always in for a flirt, a party and more. No government can change this. Go upcountry and see how easy it is to have a good time, and if you want, have good sex. No Nana needed ;-)

 

And all the rules will loosen again, one day. Just look what happened recently in Singapore, for long an economic miracle, but not really a party place. Well, that's changed to the better (party wise!).

 

Of course one can't seriously compare Thailand and Singapore, because here there is much more that needs close attention and drastic changes (police, education, urban planning, nepotism, to name a few). But hey, give them the time and the chance to work on it.

 

I live here now for three years, completely legal and hope I can stay here for many more years to come. I'm sure I'll see changes I like and changes I don't like. But hey, never a dull moment!

 

O yes, and slightly out of the scope of this post, but mentioned earlier: the recent rise of visa fees. The Netherlands, in many aspects considered a quite civilized country (with legalized prostitution, medical Gaja and more libiralities), last month raised its visa fees for long term stay with 760% and introduced a 'renewal fee' of 285 Euro.

 

It's not that bad here in Thailand, isn't it?

 

[jxxxl]

Ongchaai,

 

Can you tell me what you think has changed so dramatically in Singapore?

[mongatu]

Not addressed to anyone in particular but, how long do you think this crackdown is going to continue?

[Guest]

Most important change is that not all places have to close early anymore, like these days here in Thailand.

 

Dancing on the bar is now allowed (seems important for some people)

 

Anything else?

[jacko]

[color:"red"] Not addressed to anyone in particular but, how long do you think this crackdown is going to continue? [/color]

 

I don't think anybody can answer this question.

Past crackdowns have come and gone, fizzled out after a few months.

Possibly this one will fade after the APEC meeting in October.

Or perhaps when Purachai oversteps the line and gets moved to the political backwaters.

 

There is even indiaction on this board that the clamdown is being ignored sporadically already.

 

But you never know, one day they might get really serious and develop stamina! I always think of what happened in M.H. Del Pilar (sic) in Manila.

 

 

[Guest]

 

jacko It was an example and the only place I could think of to find so many younger people is our schools. The society I grew up in girls did not go straight from school to Bars. Thai village girls are showing up in the toursit areas to young to work legally in them but are around them and end up in them before long. I am just saying do not believe this that Thailand is killing the cash cow by these crack downs. Short term it may be a loss but long term the changes could mean they would get more cash on using less of their resources ie; people deciding to stay and visit thailand will do so with more disposable cash because the place is not over crowded with the same we try to get away from back home when we choose a retirement place or vacation place. Choosing a place on the reason alone it is cheap will get what Thailand has now. I do not see putting limits on nightlife and the income of long stays and rules to be a negative thing that will kill the cash cow. If you have citizenship then you have a right to fight if you are a guest or resident of some type, sorry you should expect things not to stay the same. I sure wish they would lower the bar fines and drink prices bur complaining about this and expecting this is ridicuoles

Nothing more nothing less and this is just providing me something to do while sitting around saving cash!!!!!!!

[Guest]

if your country was as Thailand is

---

After 9+ years here, I consider Thailand my country, and I certainly do not see the current policy the way you do.

Much of this does have to do with the nightlife and for them to put a limit on who and what standards that can stay for how long. These are very targeted actions that the government is doing for what is probably in the best interest of their country on a long term basis

---

Targeted? In the best interests of the country? Like the closure of Q Bar, which coincidentally happened after the Farang owner refused to allow some Thai heavies to muscle into what was a profitable business. I guess that is targeted, but I don?t think I like the target, and I don?t see how that it is in the best interests of the employees and customers of Q Bar, but I can see how some people will profit.

 

And have you ever noticed that when a policy is dubious, it is always conveniently justified as being good on a "long term basis." If it doesn't pan out or turns out to be hugely counterproductive, it is not because there is a problem with the policy - it's just that you need to wait a bit longer...and longer...and longer...

 

But there is a more fundamental point here. Why not let the people themselves sort it out by voting with their feet and wallets? In other words, why not let bar owners, bar employees and bar customers decide when they will close and set their own standards. Isn't that the standard that is more consistent with development? Hasn't the 20th century taught us that the heavy hand of paternalistic government intervention has been a disaster? I know this may sound strange, but why not have a little faith in the people and make the wild assumption that people are capable of thinking for themselves and making their own decisions? Crazy, huh?

 

And does anyone seriously think that covering up will end corruption or any other serious social problem in Thailand? In a country that year after year comes among the top third of corrupt countries, won?t this simply create more opportunities for graft and corruption? And if image is the real concern, shouldn?t the reputation for corruption ? which is now getting worse ? be a bigger concern than a few nude shows? You can see nude shows in The Netherlands, a country that enjoys a reputation of being very clean. Wouldn't Thailand be a better place if it was only half as clean nasty old Holland?

 

A Thai girl I know who works in a bar brought it down to earth and summed it up perfectly this evening. In her exact words, ?If they close Nana and Patpong, it will just take money away from me. I will just have to pay more money to other people. It will be good for the high-so, and bad for the khon-jon [poor people]. Thai men will always find girls, and if [a] Farang reallys want a girl, he?ll still find her. It is always us [the poor]?

 

And she is exactly right. This is more about bar girls than punters. If the crackdown persists and becomes serious, it won?t eliminate commercial sex in Thailand. It will simply channel it into the hands of vested criminal interests who will take a larger percentage of the proceeds at the expense of working girls.

 

Looking at it from the perspective of vested criminal interests, the commercial sex scene is a tremendous lost opportunity. All that money flowing directly from Farangs to poor Issan girls without any good opportunities for them to take healthy percentage. It must be damn frustrating.

 

And one sure way for vested criminal interests to their hands on a hefty chunk of that money flowing from punters to bar girls is a crack down on the scene that drives it underground and into your hands. That way you can ensure that much more of the money generated from commerical sex must flow through your hands before it reaches some ignorant Issan girl.

 

Economists call this ?rent taking?, and that is what this all really about. Although the Nana bar girl I spoke with this evening wouldn't recognize the word "rent taking", she clearly understands the concept.

 

[chilli13]

hmm good post. I suppose this is what it really is about. rent taking...