lembeh Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Tough situation. A couple of semi random thoughts which may (or may not) shed some light. 1. A Thai sin sot would be MUCH (thats very, very f*cking much) lower. Probably in the 10K region maybe with some (one baht) gold thrown in. (we will exclude the Thai chinese sin sots which can also get outrageous!). Up country thai-thai will be in the range stated. Its only when farangs get involved that things start to get out of control. 2. The offer you made is (even at farang levels) VERY fair, and the mother is trying it on. Problem (maybe) that she thinks that your first bid was an "opening bid", so to speak, and she is waiting to meet you half way. Of course that may screw you if thats what you have to pay, howevr negotiations often start at a lower and higher starting positions than are actually warranted. Sadly you may have "over-played" your starting position. 50K "start" with possibility of 100K "settle" may have been a better way all round (20-20 hind sight!). Its worrying that "face" may now be involved, with mother saying she will not come down, until you come up. 3. The sin-sot is part of the "traditional" service, and "marriage" in Thailand has two components and "marriages" seem to be either both or either on i.e. there is that traditional "in the village" part as well as the "ampur" (registration) part. To "push" the issue, maybe sound out the g/f about doing the "registration" part *without* the village part. See what she says. Legally, you would be "married" (to all intents and purposes for your "western" side), as the "traditional" part has no legal validity. This would move it along (although one always thinks VERY carefully about "pushing" issues in Thailand). The "traditional" village side can be put on hold until either the mother comes around or hell freezes over.... 4. I have been part of a "pay up front" return under the counter wedding (not mine!). The amount announced (and counted!) at the ceremony was 2 to 3 times the "real deal" so to speak. Every single baht that was "over" was returned immediately and in full. No quibbling, haggling or mis counting (and it was a fair old sum). In your case however, as said without an understanding of where the mother is comming from (face or greed?) would NOT reccomend this. 5. As a realist (cynic?) would also support the idea of having a VERY fluent friend or intermediary present at the next negotiation (the best would be a farang would was fluent and would keep his thai skills quiet) to find out what is REALLY going on. Is it the mother..or (sorry to be pessamistic) the girl. Unless your Thai (or other language skills) are up to it, there is always that nagging suspicion.... -j- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thalenoi Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Just for info, attended gf's sister marirage last march, simple rice farmer's daughter, 36 years old, marrying a 40years old rice farmes who was to live at the girls parents house. Sin sot was 30k and would hardly suffice to pay the party, a simple thing with food and booze in front of the house. I have no plans to marry the gf, but to take care, I live on a state pension and am not ready to give away my savings. Gave around 50k to the parents over the last two years. We did have lots of discussions on monye issues, but all understand now the gf has a better life. Pressure has come down to close to zero, ouf for me, got tired of money matters, close to break-up. I also would refuse to pay anything at this stage. 100k AND pay for the wedding??? Pay for the wedding but not for feeding and boozing the complete village population... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lazyphil Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 We got married on the quiet at a register office so no expensive do and no sin sot paid at the time of marriage. Prior to this I gave about 40k baht to my mum-in-law on and off whilst living with my missus for ten months in LOS and since then we share the costs of our commitments in LOS. My mum-in-law is nice and gave us a break for no big party as my money was running low when living there, now we both work full time in England I have no problem giving family back home a brighter future (part buying a new house near bkk?75% of). If I/we give money I dont want it back. I cant be doing with this bullshit face nonsense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Probably in the 10K region ------------------- more like 30K plus 2 or 3 bahts of gold, IME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Just wondering, how long has this relationship been going on? How many times have you visited her Mother? Is there a Father? Do you know some of the Thai customs? If your future Mother-in-law expects this much from you now, what will it be like in the future? I would advice not speaking about marriage. When your girl friend brings it up, put off giving her an answer. Wait and see what happens. You might want to test the family in certain ways to see how they react to different situations. Maybe this is a workable situation, but I feel the water has not been tested very well for you to be comfortable now. Check things out or you might end up over your head in water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Hi, "more like 30K plus 2 or 3 bahts of gold, IME." No, I think Josh has it pretty much nailed. Remember the girl is 36. My brother-in-law got married last year (marriage lasted only 2-3 months but that's a different story), and he paid only 2,000 Baht (yes, two thousand, not a typo). The 30K range would be for a young girl (say early 20-ish) from a decent family (i.e. with some land / 'wealth'). Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 The 30K range would be for a young girl (say early 20-ish) from a decent family (i.e. with some land / 'wealth'). ------------------------- correct. Josh did not specify the age. these 2000 seem like lip service to the sin sod custom, more than a real one. My feelings are that many families away from village life in Thailand do not bother much with that custom, other than do something symbolic (which giving back the money exemplifies) as your bro in law did, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lembeh Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 >correct. Josh did not specify the age Not to be picky, but think you will find the age was stated in the original (i.e. first) post to which I was responding... However having said that, as with everything, your milage may vary. In the case of "normal" (note the inverted commas), Thai's, a sin sot may indeed be token. A woman I know an office worker (young, not married before etc), married a rice farmer with her parents blessing. Sin sot was *under* 10K....(plus no gold). One way around some of this (if you can get a straight answer) is to ask a simple question, if there are siblings who are married (or cousins or whatever in the family). How much was the sin sot paid for "whatever the relative". If it is an up country thai-thai wedding, don't be surprised if the answer is a few K plus gold. If there is a farang in the mix, add at least one or two zero's to the sum. -j- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Says khunsanuk: Hi, "more like 30K plus 2 or 3 bahts of gold, IME." No, I think Josh has it pretty much nailed. Remember the girl is 36. My brother-in-law got married last year (marriage lasted only 2-3 months but that's a different story), and he paid only 2,000 Baht (yes, two thousand, not a typo). The 30K range would be for a young girl (say early 20-ish) from a decent family (i.e. with some land / 'wealth'). Sanuk! Know a Thai guy from Udon Thani. He paid 6000bt sin sot for his 23yr old wife from Udon Thani. Her family is dirt poor. They are currently living in one of those communal type empty lots ;ittered with shacks in BKK where they pay 500bt a month for electricity, until the owner wants to build something there and kicks everybody off the land. I think what HSTEACH is being told to pay is ridiculous. 25k baht would be the most I would offer. He is a high school teacher so he has no real exponetial income potential until he retires and his pension kicks in. I assume he is not a rich man unless his family is. So he will have to bring and support a wife in the States until she can make an income. 100,000bt is a ridiculous amount for a man in his position, that money could buy his wife clothes in the States, or that money could be their airfare. Screw the mother and the whole face nonsense, it is not worth it. there is compromse and then there is nonsense. The mother and the daughter are giving HSTEACH nonsense. The daughter needs to figure out if she wants to be a wife or an old maid. Simple as that. The only way I would pay 100,000+ baht would be if it was a one time payment and there would never be another dime sent again for any reason. Now if the mother and daughter were smart they would know you could provide that money to the mother in the form of a monthly stipend the daughter would send back every month, There is no way a man would deny his wife the ability to send her mother 4000bt a month. Your in a bad situation HS and I advise you to extricate yourself from it quickly in a manner that allows you to be satisfied. Don't listen to that nonsense about the Thai way and understanding them because you are making a decision that will affect YOUR LIFE. You are an American and they have to understand your position also. You operate from a position of strength do not be afraid to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 I'm a little perplexed by the different amounts mentioned that should be OK as a SinSot. SinSot in Thailand is mostly if not only about face. The higher the SinSot the more face gained by all involved, and this includes the provider. In normal situations the Sin Sot (money + gold) should be returned as it is a show of wealth of the Groom and a show of how well he can provide his Bride. In any case it's not for the parents to keep. All posters mention some amount, and it's mostly related to the Bride (&her family), her age, social status etc. But that's not all. The amount IS relevant to the Social Status of the Groom as well. A large Sin Sot also gives the Groom much face. It should all be returned to the newly weds of course. The dilemma of HST is not so much that the mother wants a large amount to gain much face, because if HST agrees to go even higher he himself would gain even more face. His problem is that the mother insists on keeping the Sin Sot. This is not a matter of face but putting a price on the daughter. Completely wrong even in Thai culture and against Buddist priciples. We're talking about greed here, and his GF needs to state where she stands in this. If she follows her mom in this she's looking at the marriage as a means to provide for her mom and more requests will follow. And as to the party, as far as I know the family of the bride does bear all responsibility and all costs involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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