JJsushi Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Says orandanodes: It then all depends on what both are comfortable with to show in relation to face. I hear guys mention face alot in these situations especially to explain away what is apparent greed. What this woman is doing is not face it is greed. I am not Thai but I am no stranger to the concept of "face". Every culture has it's own types of "face". in America we don't call it "face" we call it respect and honor. HS has his own "face" to protect. Do you think a Thai male,teacher with his type of background and education would have his offer spurned? Do you think the mother would try to gouge him? Only if the mother hated/disliked/ or disapproved of him for some reason and didn't want the daughter to marry him. From the way HS explains it this is pure greed and he should not tolerate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Says josh_ingu: >I would not feel safe carrying 100K around. That is 3 years wages for village folk. Be very, very careful I very, very, very much agree. In the situation of total family support you would be pretty much as safe as houses. *Without* mommas support, and her not being happy? I would be VERY concerned. If the money is put on the table and not acepted, I would get the hell out of Dodge immediately (before anything could be "arranged"). On a peronal note, I do have to note that I would be very, very cautious using the put the money on the table and "take it or leave it" approach. Two reasons mainly. Firstly this is VERY confrontational, and, well, its NOT the Thai way. Things are negotiated and worked out exactly to avoid this. My concern is that this "confrontation" will lead to the exact opposite of what you want: i.e she will essentailly say "take your money and stick it". *If* the woman has put her "pride" or "face" into this she will not *openly* back down. There are lots of things we don't know here (welcome to Thailand!). Maybe her sisters daughter got 250,000 from a farang and she wants/needs to up that? Maybe her worst enemy in the village got 299,999 and she wants to up her?? We do not know. But we DO have to put ourselves in her shoes a bit. How would we feel if we say "I want this price for this thing" and some one comes up to us and says heres the dosh, thats all you are getting, take it and f*ck off.... I do not think any of us would react very well to that. All said, I would STRONGLY urge further efforts be made to seek some sort of compromise that is acceptable and keeps "face" (or appearances) all round, rather than move to a direct confrontation. -j- Nice suggestions in your post and if we were dealing with resonable parties then a compromise can be reached. Once again the concept of "face" is used to explain behavior but too many farang forget that "face" is a two way street. "Face" is not for Thais only. HS has "face" too. He is in an even better position because he has no plans to live in the village or Thailand for that matter. He is going back to the States with his new bride. He and his wife really don't need the approval of the mother and the family. Regarding confrontation I have seen many a Thai get confrontational and dismiss or put others in their place. Bottom line about "face" IMO is that he with power wins. HS, IMO has the power but he has been willing to play fair. The mother is not respecting his power and is causing him to lose personal "face" by her unwillingness to compromise on the sin sot. She is basically telling him to take it or leave it. HS needs to regain his advantage by telling the mother to fuck off in a polite way by calling the wedding off and telling the daughter to elope with him. The mother gets no cash and no wedding ceremony for her daughter in the village. That is how you win. He gives her 300k then he loses and he invites more problems for his marriage later. To smooth things over he sends her a monthly stipend, comes back a year later bearing gifts and all should be well. The only variable he has to be certain of is that his GF will follow him 100% She has the hardest choice to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 >What this woman is doing is not face it is greed. >Do you think the mother would try to gouge him? Only if the mother hated/disliked/ or disapproved of him for some reason and didn't want the daughter to marry him. >From the way HS explains it this is pure greed and he should not tolerate it. I agree on all 3 statements. Further, I'm inclined to think none of the ladies (mum and daughter) care much about HS, that's why he is in this difficulty. I would walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Come on P127 what was so hard about understanding that? ------------------------------------- just sticking to reading his posts, and listening to him: "...I know100K is a lot of money, but I'd pay it just to get this over with. I might be able to offer less and my finace possibly could convince mom to accept this, but when? I don't want to drag this on and on. I'd like to get on with my life with a new bride instead of wondering if and when mom'll finally relent..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 By quoting only part of my post it looks as if your post is a reaction to mine. I'm in full agreement with you. Mom want to keep the SinSot, than it's greed, no matter if its 10K or 100K. If its all returned and just a matter of show or face or respect, whatever word you wish the apply than any amount that all are happy with is fine. (this includes an amount of ZERO). And I stand by my original post stating that the hosts of the party pay for the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lembeh Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 You make several valid points, especially about "face" being a two way street. Sadly though, IMHO, farangs are never seen as having "face" either to have or to lose. However, Thai racism is a bit off the point, so I'll pass on it for now!. There may be a glimmering here of some of the concerns of the mother. Maybe what she is worried about is that the 100K will be it, thats the end of it and all she is going to (ever) get. The daughter will be off to America, and mum will be on her own. *Maybe* she truely thinks she had better get the best "deal" she can now, because its for all time. OK, there may be promises about doctors bills etc, but maybe the mother is frightened that they will not come through?? Who knows. Let not forget that a marrage to a Thai would have a (much) lower sin sot, BUT the daughter will be in Thailand and can regularly be tapped for cash. What does 300K equal? well, lets see. Lets say the mum, instead of getting a lump sum was assured she would get 2,500 per month. OK, that calculates to 30,000 baht per year. OK, so, a 300,000 sin sot *could* be equated to a 2,500 baht per month support for 10 years. Given that the mother may be in her 50's, round about her 60's she is out of luck (even if she was wise with the money..LOL). Or even another way: 100K works out to 2,500 per month for only 3 years. Given that there is NO social security here, no pension, no welfare, parents often do see their daughters (and to a lesser extent sons) as their old age security. So along comes the farang and says I am going to take your penion plan away, and you are going to get a few years support in exchange. *Maybe* that is why she is baulking. In my own, very humble opinion, the farang way of marry and leave so to speak is absolutely anthema to the Thai family. The family is a commitment for life, and each contributes to that family according to their ability to contribute. Farangs are RICH (by almost any comparative standard), and so I think Thai's are genuinely confused by the reluctance of Farangs to contribute (and more so by their desire to take the old ladys pension plan and bugger off...). I *know* that all farangs are not mega millionaires, and that most hold normal jobs. However, how many upcountry Thai's can hop on a plane and jaunt half way around the world..for a holiday! Damn precious few. You may well be dealing with an up country Thai, who, if he see's 1,000 baht in a month, thinks himself bloody lucky. Its just different worlds entirely. As I said, I would still urge the exploration of compromise. There may well be one that will satisfy all parties. Lets also bear in mind that splitting up a Thai girl and her family is not really the best way to start married life together. -j- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Says josh_ingu: Lets also bear in mind that splitting up a Thai girl and her family is not really the best way to start married life together. -j- Your right it is not the best way,neither is greed, however I think for practical and pragmatic reasons it is better to have a temporary break and then make amends later. The primary objective is to marry off a 36yr old, under-educated and financially poor woman well past her prime. A smart woman would get married by hook or crook to HS and then send her mother a monthly stipend. Thai chicks I have met who work in the States send anywhere from 4k-12k baht a month back home. Heck if she wanted once she gets her citizenship she could even have the mother stay with her in the States. From what I gather the mother does not have to worry about being abandoned by the daughter once she leaves Thailand. This daughter sounds like she will be there for the mother through thick and thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think_too_mut Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 >The primary objective is to marry off a 36yr old, under-educated and financially poor woman well past her prime. The daughter may have passed her prime, how about the mother? Is the mum younger than HSTEACH, if that may have something to do with his treatment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunsanuk Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Hi, "The primary objective is to marry off a 36yr old, under-educated and financially poor woman well past her prime." The girls in the office said that the mother should *pay* HS for marrying the girl! Sanuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSTEACH Posted October 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Thanks KS, I like that idea, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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