shygye Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 [color:"green"] She emailed me today saying she wanted me to go to the village with her during the Christmas holidays and bring the 100K. No more. Lay it out in front of mom, let her look at the cold cash. [/color] I would not feel safe carrying 100K around. That is 3 years wages for village folk. Be very, very careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbo Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Says pattaya127: I would agree with Oran here. I always hear that the girl's family pays for the party (though, if farang is involved, i strongly doubt it and knows too many farangs who paid all, OH had a belgian friend marry this year in nakhon sakhon, he may want to tell us). Hi P127 and Oran, My wife just confirmed with me that the groom pays for the wedding party. Definately here in the South of Thailand. Let's say the girl is from Samui and the guy from Surat city, he can even end up paying twice, a party in Surat for relatives there and a party in Samui. Known cases around. A 1000 folks at the wedding, no problem at all, though one tends to get a lot of cash back from the guests, they all donate money to the couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 I applaud your having made a decision. My personal opinion is that your still doing too much. The amount is still too much. You are compromising too much. You are still showing weakness. You initially negotiated in good faith with no compromise coming from the other side. Your offers were spurned and yet you still try to gain favor? Now you are going to visit the village with a pocketful of cash to entice the old woman. I think that is a crass movie with no dignity in it whatsoever. Are you buying livestock? No. You are seeking the blessings to wed your fiancee. The flash the cash thing is way beneath your honor and it stinks. I think it is a mistake. You did your part by trying to be generous, now it is your lady's turn to do hers and choose what is best for her life. She needs to understand she is on the losing end of a deal here adhering to the mother. Curious do you plan on living in Thailand after the wedding, particularly in the mothers home? If you are going to return to the States then why are you going through all of this nonsense kow-towing to a warped and twisted version of sin sod from the Thai mother. Would you jump through the same hoops for in-laws in America? Then why do it in Thailand? Sorry HS but placating the mother is not worth it and if your lady can't understand that then you need to let her go. The amount she is asking is not about FACE, it is about MONEY. BTW- you don't really believe that once you pay the sin sod that your financial contributions will cease do you? Whether you knowingly contribute or not the wife will be sending money back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 >>My wife just confirmed with me that the groom pays for the wedding party. Definately here in the South of Thailand.<< Not sure if southern Thai customs differ from those elsewhere, but lets have a look at the history of Thai marriage. When Thais marry (does not apply to Chinese-Thais), it used to be that the groom moves in with the family of the bride. The "sin sot" is whatever the groom brings with him. In the old days this could be land, cows, or anything else that increased the wealth and/or income potential of the bride's family. The wedding would take place at the home of the bride, and the Sin Sot as mentioned was the only contribution from the groom (often the groom's family would help out with the sin sot, perhaps by giving him part of the family land to contribute). The sin sot is in fact based on bringing part of the wealth of 1 family (the groom's) into that of the other (the brides). Since the new couple will live with the groom, they will also benefit from the sin sot given. The parents of the bride are the hosts of the party. It's their responsiblity and for them to pay for. Guest of course come with gifts and this is usually money. This is collected by the couple, but may be used to pay for all of part of the wedding party cost. Thai parents looking for large sin sot's to keep for themselves and in addition asking for the groom to pay for a party that they (the parents) host, are plain greedy. Simple as that. Thais living in cities have mostly done away with the sin sot requirement, although it's still often there for show. In the cities most newly weds will start their own home and don't go to live with the bride's family. Many Thai couples will of course help out parents in need, and if the parents of the bride as much less well off that those of the groom, the new couple will help out to improve their life. That however is unrelated to Sin Sot but a aspect of another Thai tradition. Jasmine, please correct me on this if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 The amount is still too much. ---------------------- It may be too much for you but that is up to him (OH just said some farang paid 100K up north). he certainly knows what was too much and i have a feeling 100K seemed always OK to HS. What he wants is closure on this whole ordeal, get married and move on. IMO. If Mom wants 300K and he says 100K, how is that compromising, since he accepted the sin sod rule? I may have forgotten he mentionned a lower amount though.... a pocketful of cash to entice the old woman. I think that is a crass movie with no dignity in it whatsoever. Are you buying livestock? ---------------------------- I did not understand that, just that on his next trip, he will have with him the funds to get married, including the sin sod. having told us that, he should on his next trip refrain from being involved in the matter, and let the GF handle it with Mom. I always said he needs a third party and if it can only be the GF, nothing illogical in that, esp. when both of them now agree about the amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Says pattaya127: The amount is still too much. ---------------------- It may be too much for you but that is up to him (OH just said some farang paid 100K up north). he certainly knows what was too much and i have a feeling 100K seemed always OK to HS. What he wants is closure on this whole ordeal, get married and move on. IMO. If Mom wants 300K and he says 100K, how is that compromising, since he accepted the sin sod rule? I may have forgotten he mentionned a lower amount though.... Yeah, some farang pay this amount and some don't Some farang are idiots and some not. Some farng kow tow too much to "Thai culture" and some don't. What's your point. IMO HS is offering too much. I distinctly remember him saying that he was a teacher , he didn't make much and he didn't have too much. I also remember that initially he wanted to pay a lower amount. I also remember that he has from the start been asking what is a fair amount. We have had many here suggest from 10k to 100k with most people sugggesting 40k was fair. I don't know about you but to GIVE(meaning not get back) a family $US2500 in sin sot and probably spend another $500 in wedding expenses along with travel expenses and bringing a bride to the States;supporting said bride in the USA until she can find a job , keeping in mind she has no real education and she is 36yrs old in this crappy economy sounds like it is TOO MUCH. I am sure HS can put US$2500 to better use. That is my opinion of course. a pocketful of cash to entice the old woman. I think that is a crass movie with no dignity in it whatsoever. Are you buying livestock? ---------------------------- I did not understand that, just that on his next trip, he will have with him the funds to get married, including the sin sod. having told us that, he should on his next trip refrain from being involved in the matter, and let the GF handle it with Mom. I always said he needs a third party and if it can only be the GF, nothing illogical in that, esp. when both of them now agree about the amount. Bringing the money is for show prior to any wedding and blessings to entice the old lady to agree, in other words she may change her mind once she sees the cash in front of her instead of arguing over numbers. People usually have a different outlook when they see cash vs talking about it. To me that is akin to buying livestock especially since he won't get the cash back. The act would demean him. He is dealing with a greedy woman. Come on P127 what was so hard about understanding that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSTEACH Posted October 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 I know100K is a lot of money, but I'd pay it just to get this over with. I might be able to offer less and my finace possibly could convince mom to accept this, but when? I don't want to drag this on and on. I'd like to get on with my life with a new bride instead of wondering if and when mom'll finally relent. As far as a job for her, she's already got one. She attended a culinary course years ago, but had to quit as she found it unbearable to work 12 hours a day and go to school at the same time. She'll re-enter that course in December and stay until her visa is issued, and has a job as a pastry chef apprentice if and when she gets to the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 If it's an amount to be returned in full there is no such thing as too much. It then all depends on what both are comfortable with to show in relation to face. If it's about an amount to be kept by mom any amount is too high. As you say, it's not bargaining over the right selling price of livestock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJsushi Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 Says HSTEACH: I know100K is a lot of money, but I'd pay it just to get this over with. I might be able to offer less and my finace possibly could convince mom to accept this, but when? I don't want to drag this on and on. I'd like to get on with my life with a new bride instead of wondering if and when mom'll finally relent. As far as a job for her, she's already got one. She attended a culinary course years ago, but had to quit as she found it unbearable to work 12 hours a day and go to school at the same time. She'll re-enter that course in December and stay until her visa is issued, and has a job as a pastry chef apprentice if and when she gets to the US. That's my point HS you have things set up to make a life for you and your bride. Why muck it up with negotiating over money that you are not getting back(that is what I understood from your first post). That is a shitty way to start a marriage and if you acquiesce to the mothers demands then it will never end and and it will not go away. The taint of greed should not even enter into your relationship but it ialready has. Kill it now before it bears fruit. You tried being a good guy and it didn't work. I would not give the mother a wooden nickel. Your fiancee needs to be smart and go against the mother. You are going to marry her, bring her to the States, have her in a position to make a career for herself. From her earnings she should be able to send a monthly stipend to momma, that will in the long run exceed the sin sod. I bet you she is gonna send money whether you know it or not. Your GF has to make a choice and if she can't make the smart, right,difficult choice now which is positive for you, her and the mother; is she really worth planning your life with? Sounds like a road to trouble if you ask me. I'm sorry but I need a woman that is going to be loyal to me the same as I am loyal to her, make your GF demonstrate that. When you go to the village this year you hand her a plane ticket to the States and say thats her her sin sod. Come with you or stay with her mother. Ultimatum time. Your offering alot to this woman in the name of love, Why should you placate a greedy mother? Take the bride, elope to the States, screw the whole village blessing ceremony, send the mother a monthly stipend, return 1 year later and give your wife the Thai wedding she wants. I guarantee you once you have kids all will be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lembeh Posted October 28, 2003 Report Share Posted October 28, 2003 >I would not feel safe carrying 100K around. That is 3 years wages for village folk. Be very, very careful I very, very, very much agree. In the situation of total family support you would be pretty much as safe as houses. *Without* mommas support, and her not being happy? I would be VERY concerned. If the money is put on the table and not acepted, I would get the hell out of Dodge immediately (before anything could be "arranged"). On a peronal note, I do have to note that I would be very, very cautious using the put the money on the table and "take it or leave it" approach. Two reasons mainly. Firstly this is VERY confrontational, and, well, its NOT the Thai way. Things are negotiated and worked out exactly to avoid this. My concern is that this "confrontation" will lead to the exact opposite of what you want: i.e she will essentailly say "take your money and stick it". *If* the woman has put her "pride" or "face" into this she will not *openly* back down. There are lots of things we don't know here (welcome to Thailand!). Maybe her sisters daughter got 250,000 from a farang and she wants/needs to up that? Maybe her worst enemy in the village got 299,999 and she wants to up her?? We do not know. But we DO have to put ourselves in her shoes a bit. How would we feel if we say "I want this price for this thing" and some one comes up to us and says heres the dosh, thats all you are getting, take it and f*ck off.... I do not think any of us would react very well to that. All said, I would STRONGLY urge further efforts be made to seek some sort of compromise that is acceptable and keeps "face" (or appearances) all round, rather than move to a direct confrontation. -j- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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