think_too_mut Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 >In any case it's not for the parents to keep. That's what my gf told me. Even if the money is flashed, it goes back to us. The way I intend to do it - let my gf to show them her passbook. Still, I'll try to avoid all that if I can (I mean, be part of their face gaining exercise). Not trying to save on money - the dough has been sitting in her bank for a while and will stay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmine Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 [color:"red"] In any case it's not for the parents to keep. All posters mention some amount, and it's mostly related to the Bride (&her family), her age, social status etc. But that's not all. The amount IS relevant to the Social Status of the Groom as well. A large Sin Sot also gives the Groom much face. It should all be returned to the newly weds of course. [/color] A woman I have known (not a friend) who is from a filthy rich family got 18,000,000 Baht from her once Thai Embassador to Belgium 12 years ago and every penny was returned. Now she just married again and got 29,000.000 Baht, not including diamonds and the sinsod WAS offerred, not asked. The tradition is practiced but 90% of my Thai girl friends, including me, do not ask nor get sin sod and the "face" of the families are still there. I understand that in villages are different but it is up to HSTeach and his future bride to decide and tolerate the gossips. However, the Thais forget easily, within a year, the "face" will be back to normal. Jasmine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limbo Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Says orandanodes: And as to the party, as far as I know the family of the bride does bear all responsibility and all costs involved. Hi Oran, Just to clariffy this, the bride is the girl, is it? To the best of my knowledge the guy has to pay for the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 I would agree with Oran here. I always hear that the girl's family pays for the party (though, if farang is involved, i strongly doubt it and knows too many farangs who paid all, OH had a belgian friend marry this year in nakhon sakhon, he may want to tell us). Jasmine comfirms what we should all know: Not in the villages, but Sin sod is otherwise fast fading away, but always good to skin a farang, who by definiton is a rich man () Finally, Isn't the incidence of returning the money more a 50/50 thing rather than a rule. I heard both accounts, and thinking of the thai guys who say they can't marry becasue they don't have sin sod money. Even if expected to be returned, there is some kind of gifts involved, which value may not be offset by the gifts the couple receives if it's withing poor families. This is so complicated. Back to HS case. have you thought of stopping to dance on one lovetorn foot and firmly stating what you will do, no anger, all smiles, but that is it. Both to the fiancee and the Mom. Come on, Man!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 "...(though, if farang is involved, i strongly doubt it and knows too many farangs who paid all, OH had a belgian friend marry this year in nakhon sakhon, he may want to tell us)..." Actually, it was a friend from Sakhon Nakhon who married a guy from Belgium:) I asked her what the total damage was, and she reported...100,000for Sin Sot (as he paid off other debts for her) and 50,000 for the party which he paid. As far as I know, the groom pays for the party. She is an educated girl (official teacher), good family with a hell of a lot of land (thanks to older sister marrying well!). All in all, it was a great party! at a fraction of what a similar deal whould cost for the same number of guests in Farangland! Still, I think her Sin Sot was a bit high, Thai-Thai would have been less, which she admits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabii Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 HST, Tough situation. My immediate reaction is that you are correct, 100,000 baht is a reasonable sin sot for your fiancee. Maybe a bit more or less could be justified, but your proposal is reasonable. Will you also be paying for a wedding? More important, for the future success of your marriage, I am wondering where the loyalties of your fiancee lie. Is she strong enough to stand up to her mother for the right to live her own life? In saying it that way I am taking the western view point. Your fiancee may not look at it in that way. But it comes back to the same point - where do you stand in her life and can she adopt a position, however she rationalizes it for herself, that loving and respecting her mother does not mean she must obey her mother. If your fiancee cannot make her own decisions about marriage but must obey her mother's demands, you are in for a rocky marriage that has an excellent chance of being torn apart by this mother-in-law. Good luck. Regards, JEff Says HSTEACH: ... In the days following that thread, my future wife assured me she would take care of it, she would talk to her mom and explain I wasn't the rich farang her mother assumed we all are. Well, that conversation between mom and daughter finally happened and mom is adament, to her daughter's disbelief ,that the original amt. stands. There will be NO changes. There will be NO wedding at Christmas unless the full amount is paid. The amt. I'm speaking of is 300,000 Baht. Now the future wife is a good ole Issan girl of limited education, GTG, never marriied, no kids. and pretty damn close to her sale date, being 36, and sinsot for someone of her status is nowhere near what mom is asking. I offered what I thoughtt was a very generous amt of 100, 000 Baht which most people say is extremely generous for a woman of my GFs status. Now what to do? Bypassing mom is out of the question, negotiating with her is at an standstill, even by another Thai. .... I told my GF, the marriage would have to be put on indeffinite hold. This really distresses her. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loner w/a boner Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Wow, you've gotten a lot of advice here. I just can't help throw mine in too. First, congratulations on your upcoming marriage. I know I can speak for all of us here as I wish your family all the best. I do have a couple of concerns I'd like to share with you. First, even though it's normal and healthy for a woman, even 36, to have strong loyalty to her mother, I would consider that in many families, blood will always come first, and you will always be the "farang" she married. That's okay for mom's point-of-view, but not your fiance's. Many women do not understand/practice the "leave and cleave" concept of marriage--beginning a new family. You may want to think back to conversations with your gal, and any past differences you've had with her family/mother. How did your woman handle it? Did she come to your defense, or show you a disrespectful cold shoulder? You can try using a VERY RESPECTED Thai third-party to intervene on your behalf. But, failing that, will your fiance leave her mother behind for you if you refuse to bend? Ultimately, if you are not willing to walk away from this marriage, you may very well end up kissing mamma's ass for years. This isn't about the money--it's about control. I have observed that many women may either "like" a man or "respect" a man, but not both at the same time. Often they'll think a man is a "total asshole", but by God, they make way for him when he walks in the room. Or they may use sweet words to placate a broken man's ego--but they will despise that man for his weakness. Personally, I'm just naturally the biggest asshole in the room. I think you telling your fiance that the wedding date may be delayed was a wise one--it will get her thinking. And in your closing, you mentioned the "bad taste" in your mouth. I think your intuition is trying to tell you something. How you respond now will set the pattern for your marriage. This is most critical. Although your post indicates your understandable frustration, it doesn't indicate weakness. It sounds like you've done your best. And asking us for advice is pooling from a broad variety of experience. If at all possible, avoid having your future mother-in-law as your enemy. This is no time for false pride, even when confronted with greed and insolence. You are not at her mercy unless you are weaker than her. If you are certain you can walk away from this marriage, here is one thing you might try. Make up in your mind what you are willing to pay, say for example, 50K. Taking the appropriate precautions, secretly bring the money with you when you next meet with her mother--IN PRIVATE. Flash the cash--slowly. Pull the money out, in large bills and spread it out in your hand--accordian style, like one of those hand fans. Take your time. Breath slowly. You're selling the sizzle, not the steak. Move it towards her--slightly. If she still says "no", oh-so-slowly, retract and pocket the money. Take your time--after all, there's a lot of it. Don't make the mistake of accepting any counter-offer of 250k, etc...(remember, it's not about the money). Then, standing up, turn your back--but don't walk away just yet; just stand there with your back to her. Then walk away from it all. And DON'T look back--physically or emotionally. She'll get the message. I'd be much more concerned with your future wife's willingness/enthusiasm to show devotion to her new family--not draining it of assets for the sake of her blood relatives. Talking with her about her dreams (those requiring financial resources), and helping her to lay out a timeline for their acquisition may go a long way towards helping things--if she's a rational and practical gal. A considerate husband must do this anyway. The sooner you do it the better. I have no doubt you care for her deeply, but IMO picking a wife should be a cold, calculating process on your part. That is no time for emotions or thoughts of romance. Do it with the emotional detachment, focus, and determination that you would want a pediatric nuerosurgeon to use with your only child. Consult older men whom you have respect for (not just drinking buddies, and "yes men"). First compatibility, then sweet, uncontrived romance follows afterward, naturally. Sermon over, you may leave now. Please let us know how it goes. And no matter what happens, chok dee! Later P.S. I just can't resisit. God forgive me for what I'm about to suggest ...sigh... If you just cannot live without this gal, and cannot find the strength/ingenuity to deal with momma, cave in. Give her as much as she wants--make it easy for her. Then, at the ceremony, AFTER you've said your vows, while the monk and guests are all present (while making toasts would be ideal), make an announcement that the family has decided that the entire amount of the sinsot is to be donated to the local wat. Take that momma! You're the man--be the biggest asshole in the room. Later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grabii Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 glimpy, As a matter of fact I did exactly this for my wedding in Chiangmai in early September. Without going into the 'why', the 'what' was that my wife's family agreed that US$500 in $10 bills and a personal check for 200,000 baht (the agreed on sinsot) would be acceptable "for show" at the wedding. I'm comfortable that the check cannot be cashed, not only because I trust my wife but also because I can't imagine a Thai bank or my local bank accepting a US check made out in baht rather than dollars. And my wife trusts me that I will eventually send her the 200,000 baht, which is going into her personal bank account anyway. As for the $500 cash, our original plan was that after the wedding ceremony we would convert it into baht and use it for the honeymoon. However, since the exchange rate at the time had collapsed to about 38 THB/US$, she sat on the $ and took money from her account to pay our expenses. She's waiting until she can get better than 40 THB/US$ to exchange the $ and pay herself back. Regards, JEff Says glimpy: Hey, perhaps it's my sick humour..........are you sure the Sin Sot will be given back to you immediately? Is it socially acceptable to take a check?.... ..say a bank check?......say a bank check from a ficticious bank? Are you handy with "Photoshop" or other photoediting programs? Give me an hour and one sheet of hi quality paper, a decent bubble jet printer and I'll cook you up a check for 10,000,000 Bhat from the Bank of "Dewey, Cheatum & Howe" Based in Farangland. Catch my drift Hoss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 [color:"green"] Do it with the emotional detachment, focus, and determination that you would want a pediatric nuerosurgeon to use with your only child. [/color] Another angle to think about is the concept of supply and demand. What is the supply and demand of Thai women looking for financially stable, sincere, farangs? I think you have a lot going on your side. You put 100K baht on the table. Maybe just do nothing and wait it out and see where the pieces fall Please keep us posted Rug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSTEACH Posted October 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 To all that have answered.. much thanks!! I do appreciate all the suggestions and advice. I think it's best now not to react to emotions, but to stand firm with my committments. In answer to a question about future contributions to the family that I've had with my fiance , she totally supports my position that unless mom gets sick and hospital and doctor bills need to be paid, sinsot is the final payment by me. If her brother's truck goes bottoms up, don't call me OR call her. If the family water buffalo needs new dentures, the sucker will just have to be toothless cause no money with be coming from the US. Her opinion is that they've surived before I arrived on the scene, they could survive without my help. She's adament about this. As far as the immediate future is concerned, the wedding is on indefinite hold. She understands and agrees.She emailed me today saying she wanted me to go to the village with her during the Christmas holidays and bring the 100K. No more. Lay it out in front of mom, let her look at the cold cash. Tell her it's hers if she wants, providing she gives my fiance mom's blessing for a wedding. If she refuses, put the bucks in my pocket and act like it never happened. Tell mom her daughter and I would just be friends now, there would be NO wedding. Let mom think. Let her make the decision, 100 K or nothing. My fiance thinks seeing the cash will change mom's mind. If not, we'll go to other alternatives. I think if it comes to that, my fiance will see her mother for what she really is. Like someone earlier said, I hold the cash, I make the decisions. I can always take my ball and go home, leaving mom with what she has now... nothing. I hate to play hardball with this woman, I thought my offer was more than generous, but this woman brought out the hardball, but she doesn't realize the hardball belongs to ME! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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