Old Hippie Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 I think it is really a question of values, and thoughts on the subject...that said, back when my job paid really well (before pay cuts etc) and I was doing really well salary wise, if a woman offered me money for sex, I'd have seriously considered it...so poverty would not have been an excuse in my case...lazyness, hornyness, and a love of fast money would be, speaking for myself only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AF16 Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Old Hippie said:I think it is really a question of values, and thoughts on the subject...that said, back when my job paid really well (before pay cuts etc) and I was doing really well salary wise, if a woman offered me money for sex, I'd have seriously considered it...so poverty would not have been an excuse in my case...lazyness, hornyness, and a love of fast money would be, speaking for myself only... What if it were an unatractive drunken man with an BO problem? I don't think you could really compair the sutuatoins, but agree that lazyness, love for fast money and hornyness (although I think nymfomania is an illness) could be the reason for some or part of the reason for many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 Is it available in English? -------------------------------- Pira Sudham's books are actually written in english, very easy to find in any bookstore in pattaya, BKK or Chiang mai. he originates from Issan, and his books are about that region. what i was saying is that in Asia, women of poor extraction, are not (always) considered as individuals who should be helped to realize their potential. many guys too, but women always less and far behind. For example, a son can be lazying around, as i have seen many times, and that's OK, especially if he brought merit to the parents, by being a monk for 2 weeks or more. a daughter, often the youngest of the daughters too, is often considered owing something, for having no specific value as a child. She may not be mistreated, but as she grows up, the pressure to pay back for having been put in this world, is getting stronger. The reason why many are taken out of school before they can really perfect their education, and get ambitious. the father may insist on her marrying a boy by the time she is 16 or 17. She gets pregnant, hubbie, not much older is in no frame of mind to get domestic yet, may abuse her goodness, or simply leave her. usually, she is to be felt guilty for the mishap, especially if she never wants to see that scoundrel hubbie anymore. Now she has a child, and parents are getting old, older sibblings are not the ones required to help, and she has been inculcated with that idea of owing the old chaps until they die. Mind you, not every girl is sent by the parents to sex work. But it all springs from that mind frame that a daughter has a duty to the parents (and often, her child), and people can say what they wish, but prostitution is a line of work in thailand. Boys go see prostitutes, men go see them, tourists go see them, few guys here, decent honest people really, see a moral dilemma in partaking, or cause to stop. Imagine thais, then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 AF, "but I think if you are interested in more insights, try to read some thai novels that depict the life of poor people, like Pira Sudham's, where some of his characters have dignity which redeems them, but in a context for most, where dignity is not a luxury they can afford." Pira Sudham's books are a good read and filled with excellent characters and stories. I have one here I read a while back. Here's some names/titles and IBFN numbers for you to find and/or order them yourself. People of Esarn Siamese Drama Monsoon Country IBSN for "People of Esarn, the Dying Earth is: ISBN 974-89123-4-5 My copy is published by Shire Books, GPO Box 1534, Bangkok 10501, Thailand Here's a blurb from the back of my copy on Pira Cent p.s. I recommend his books as well. ____________________________________________ Pira Sudham A Voice from the grassroots of Thailand Pira Sudham was born in a small remote village in Esarn, Northeast Thailand. He spent his early years in the rice fields helping his parents and tending a herd of buffaloes until he went to Bangkok to be a servant to Buddhist monks in a temple where he was admitted to a school. To support himself, he sold souvenirs to tourists in the streets of Bangkok until he won a scholarship from the New Zealand Government to study English language and literature at Aukland University and Victoria University. In New Zealand he began writing short stories in English which were published in Landfall, a leading literary library quarterly and in various publications in Australia and U.S.A. His first book, Siamese Drama, a collection of short stories, was published in 1983, followed by People of Esarn in 1987. He has lived for over ten years in Hong Kong, Australia and in England where he wrote his novel, Monsoon Country. Now he divides his time between living in England and in Bangkok and a village life in a district of Napo, where he was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 AF, "That people become prostitutes, yes I can understand that, that people sell their daughters, no!" My thoughts exactly on this. I agree 100% with this statement. Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Scrutinizer Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 AF16, "I later found out that she did not lie too good, but I did a fine and dandy job lying to my self. All she had to do were to let me draw my own faulty conclutions. I rationalized everyting to fit my own desires and goals, nor realizing they never were and never would be her." Well said and put. I think a lot of us farang do the same thing all the time in these relationships. Yep, we draw our own faulty conclusions, and few ladies want to contradict our thoughts on certain things. Nice insight here. Cent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattaya127 Posted August 10, 2005 Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 "That people become prostitutes, yes I can understand that, that people sell their daughters, no!" My thoughts exactly on this. I agree 100% with this statement. ---------------------------------------- sure, on an individual level, we are going to despise the father/mother who do that, but in the scheme of things, how many know, out of the dozens or hundred of girls they had, if she was at first sent by a parent. Once the girl knows the ropes, what does the farang know? Really, if we acquiesce to partaking in P4P, we give a licence to any kind of reason for girls to enter the scene. I think we farangs accept easily we are dealing with a world not really our own, 3rd world, women easily entering prostitution because their situation/condition as women is not that great to start with, and "it's the way it is", I mean we give it a thought, but not a restraining one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristianTroy Posted August 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2005 pattaya127 said:---------------------------------------- sure, on an individual level, we are going to despise the father/mother who do that, but in the scheme of things, how many know, out of the dozens or hundred of girls they had, if she was at first sent by a parent. Once the girl knows the ropes, what does the farang know? Nothing is wrong with your statement! It is also very nice of you guys to point us to the novels which i will definetely read! But in my certain case i don't need to know them to make up my mind! It is me, the falang from an educated country, that sees how his girlfriend is treated by her dad! I am the one who heard her saying" I hate to work my ass, I want to have a better Job" Family preasure, traditions, cultural differences, she owes to her family..... all this doesn't matter to me... she said she doesn't want it, i showed her how to do better and her daddy didn't had the decency to wait 14 hours until her check arrives! Her daddy works for the government and prostitution is illegal. According to the Thai government there is no such thing as prostitution! Her daddy is not poor, her family is doing great, she is doing great, why would anyone who is involved insist of playing the poor peoples role when no poor people are in sight! I think that's why she picked a falang in the first place... falang = better life. I don't need to read a book to understand that this is not acceptable for me. I am living a good life and i can take care of myself since I am 18yo. I run my own companies and i have learned that sometimes you have to piss people off to make things work! I was at school 13 years and studied 6 years. Should I look and see how she gets ruined by her dad only because his horizon ends by the next tree? Only because people in Thailand treat their daughters like a piece of shit doesn't mean that I have to accept that! Only because some sick muslim terrorists run airplanes into buildings doesn't mean that any muslim would do the same! I say it again before people think i dont get the point! The family is doing great, she is doing great, she doesn't want it and her daddy is unreasonable! Traditions are a fine thing to have. But traditions have to evovle as well! Thailand is a master example of "how to do things wrong" In Bangkog they build one Condo complex next to the other, Luxury appartments everywhere but those who could possibly afford them need a thai strawman to buy them. Hotels go broke after a few years, because the government is not taking care of this situation as well, new hotels are built on every street corner, each new hotel offers more for less money, the older hotels cannot catch up and have to close! No matter what people say, the sex tourism is very important for thailand, without the horny falang this country couldn't survive for 1 week!!! What they do, they instate a closing hour! Everyone who invested into the nightlife is making less money now, because the people have no time to spend their money anymore! Sorry for the excurse, just wanted to point out that when western knwonledge meets Thai thinking that there will be big differences! I am a guest in this country, but it doesn't mean i have to shut my mouth when i see that something is really wrong! I could spend time in understanding the dad of my girlfriend or i can spend time in showing her how to do better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_66_UK Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 AF16, "I later found out that she did not lie too good, but I did a fine and dandy job lying to my self. All she had to do were to let me draw my own faulty conclutions. I rationalized everyting to fit my own desires and goals, nor realizing they never were and never would be her." Well said and put. I think a lot of us farang do the same thing all the time in these relationships. Yep, we draw our own faulty conclusions, and few ladies want to contradict our thoughts on certain things. Nice insight here. Cent You can't get to me - I have my fingers in my ears and am singing............... lalalalala :D Actually, even I am running out of self dellusions to draw on - BTW is it still called self dellusion when you are aware what it is............ and still do it?? :: :: :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon43 Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 :sleeping: :sleeping: Is this topic done to death yet??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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