IT and shifting goalposts (Dilbert strikes..)

[Nervous_Dog]

You stop, you have to train the client what can and can;t be down, explain why, but control over the client expectations is the key to good project management

 

DOG

[Mekong]

KS & I discussed this previously. Customer management is the key. I work in manufacturing, but the process should be basically the same.

 

A document outlining the deliverables is what should be quoted.

 

Any changes to that deliverable is chargable and quoted upon request with a negotiated new delivery date.

 

Design review meetings are scheduled at appropriate points and the work done to date is signed off. Any changes after signoff are chargeable and delivery date is adjusted.

 

Design changes are your friend. You make your money here, if managed correctly. Otherwise you lose your ass.

 

A design freeze date is agreed upon where the program is deemed unchangeable and goes on to the intent of the original deliverable plus previous changes. Of course, one can back down and do chargeable changes, but those changes are much more expensive than previous ones, and the delivery date is modified yet again. Not generally recommended -- better to finish this project and do another for changes past this date.

 

This is where a good program manager, one who understand the *basics* of the engineering, but more importantly is a good customer "schmoozer" and salesman is key. I find that most software houses are very deficient in this area.

 

If you do not follow these basics, then som nam na. Sorry, but a fact. You cannot let the customer walk all over you thinking that this is good service. It's not. You do them a favour by adhering to the above, otherwise projects spiral out of control and no one is happy.

 

And yes, I am available to manage projects for you. But I ain't cheap LOL!

 

Cheers,

SD

 

SD,

 

What you say is true, but it is still only the tip of the iceburg. One thinks in your own requisitions and specifications you have it all covered yet someone will always find a loophole.

 

KS summed it up with the word "Tangible", to me Tangibility is having bigger balls than your opposite number and arguing your corner, interpritation of the facts to ones own advantage.

 

I am lucky enough at work to play the game from both sides. On one side I am Detailed Engineering on a Project for Thai Oil in Sri Racha, My Thai Engineers do the bread and butter work, I advise them on occasion, but mainly I am looking for loopholes and deviations from the Project Specification. Recently Thai Oil threw the Main Contractor off the Project and have asked us to take it over, as Bibblies quite rightly said Charge by the Hour ... reimbursable work at Time Unit Rate (TUR) is where the money is made.

 

In my earlier days when I was working on sites (usualy Middle East) I would look for areas where I could get reinbursables / change orders, the best one was where the instruction was "Site Run" bollox an open invitation to complete first 10% of installation then be paid 300% more to take it out, ahhh memories.

 

Other side of the game, on another project I am a member of the Project Management Team for a PTT Job, a fast track (5 months) compile the FEED (front end engineering design) and put together the ITB (Invitation to bid). On a $ 1/2 Billion project the bidders get 6 months for bid evaluation, most likely trying to pick holes, ie look for future payments against our specifications.

 

Every working moment is a "Dilbert Moment", not that I can fault it I get Paid to Argue

 

[..]

What you say is true, but it is still only the tip of the iceburg. One thinks in your own requisitions and specifications you have it all covered yet someone will always find a loophole.

 

KS summed it up with the word "Tangible", to me Tangibility is having bigger balls than your opposite number and arguing your corner, interpritation of the facts to ones own advantage.

 

I am lucky enough at work to play the game from both sides. On one side I am Detailed Engineering on a Project for Thai Oil in Sri Racha, My Thai Engineers do the bread and butter work, I advise them on occasion, but mainly I am looking for loopholes and deviations from the Project Specification. Recently Thai Oil threw the Main Contractor off the Project and have asked us to take it over, as Bibblies quite rightly said Charge by the Hour ... reimbursable work at Time Unit Rate (TUR) is where the money is made.

 

In my earlier days when I was working on sites (usualy Middle East) I would look for areas where I could get reinbursables / change orders, the best one was where the instruction was "Site Run" bollox an open invitation to complete first 10% of installation then be paid 300% more to take it out, ahhh memories.

 

Other side of the game, on another project I am a member of the Project Management Team for a PTT Job, a fast track (5 months) compile the FEED (front end engineering design) and put together the ITB (Invitation to bid). On a $ 1/2 Billion project the bidders get 6 months for bid evaluation, most likely trying to pick holes, ie look for future payments against our specifications.

 

Every working moment is a "Dilbert Moment", not that I can fault it I get Paid to Argue

Absolutely. I will not give up my secrets, but that is where a good project manager-cum-salesman comes in. One does write the specs document with certain loopholes (as does the customer). One can then go back and get engineering change money easily. And the customer will not complain about it if handled properly. This is derigeur in the auto industry. You underbid the original job and make it up in the engineering changes. Not rocket science, but one needs to know "when to hold 'em, when to fold 'em, when to walk away, and when to run; 'cause every hand's a winner and every hand's a loser" to make it come off without a hitch.

 

That is again why a TOP GUN project manager (like myself, if I may brag) is worth their weight in gold. He makes the customer happy, and makes the company he works for a very nice profit.

 

KS - If I were still in town, I would be happy to help out a friend. But it may be too late. This stuff has to begin right at the sales/quote stage...

 

Cheers,

SD

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"KS - If I were still in town, I would be happy to help out a friend. But it may be too late. This stuff has to begin right at the sales/quote stage..."

 

Thanks, but this client is a lost case. We've been dealing with them for ~2 years now and he still hasn't grasped the concept. We have gotten a lot better at handling him though. I.e. "Sure, we can get that done by the end of the week, but it will mean we won't do any work on any of the other outstanding issues. Your call."

 

Sanuk!

 

[buddha]

It does come down to clearly defined deliverables from day one....

[thalenoi]

I could, would and will write a book on all the idiocracies I have experienced in my professional career.

 

The worst are top management who need to make the decisions. They usually have no clue about what the new system would/should bring. They have only their own agenda in mind and don't really care where the company should be going.

 

For example, I worked for this company that postponed to update his finacial systems for 5 years because the VP Finance wanted to buy packaged software and the VP IT wanted to build inhouse. In meetings the VP IT would say "over my dead body..." The CEO jsut listened to both parties... and waited, waited.

 

Then many airlines started to implement SAP: KLM, SWISSAIR, LUFTHANSA. The latters being shareholders. So my boss, the VP Finance, decided to buy and implement SAP as well, but my boss said: let's get company X make a study to choose between SAP, ORACLE and a few others, but the outcome will be SAP for the benefit of synergies with our shareholders....synergies bullshit, since we would never open our system to these shareholders etc etc....So we paid 1k USD/day/head for consultant company X to prove my boss's point....

 

The subsequent SAP implementation was just an other big joke as you can imagine.

[gummigut]

There is nothing really tangible and it is *very* difficult to explain to a customer (with no IT knowledge) that changing the buttons on a page is not a 5 minute job (or at least may not be).

 

This is where I truly disagree. Website concepts like marketing concepts are "intangible" but the work that progresses (website/print ads/multimedia ads) are definitely tangible.

 

That's what mock-up screenshots are for. That's what the agreement that the client is totally responsible for understanding the objects on the screenshots are for.

 

Client education is an ongoing process. You should be delivering monthly/quarterly analysis and synopsis of what's been done with critique. Not only is that how a Client's knowledge grows, but that's also how your company's institutional project knowledge grows. The history of reports/documentation then become project studies for new hires and project managers and how to do things correctly (or incorrectly).

 

That's how your company gets to the next level. From my view, it's been stuck at the same level for way too long and can't make the jump until this type of infrastructure is in place.

 

Yes I know there is "no time", but that's a fallacy. You make time. Just like exercising.

 

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[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"That's what the agreement that the client is totally responsible for understanding the objects on the screenshots are for."

 

The agreement we have is that we do all their IT work, there are no set schedules, mostly it is we have x amount of resources and you tell us how to deploy them. You want us to redo a design 7 times because you cannot make up your mind, then fine, we'll do that. Of course, nothing else gets done at that point.

And if your client's only comments on a design are "I don't fucking like it", then it is very hard to figure out what they do like. Last time we couldn't even pin him down on a color he wanted.

 

G, same comment to you as I made to SD, you are welcome to have a talk with our client.

It is very easy to talk from the sidelines, but it's a lot different when actually in the frontlines.

 

We had a very good project manager on this for 9 months and things were going great. The client didn't like the pm, told us to get him off the project and he'd deal with things himself. It's gone to the dogs again.

 

Sanuk!

 

PS How is your company setup going? Found time for that yet?

 

[gummigut]

The agreement we have is that we do all their IT work

 

That sounds like a bigger scope than just a project. Management is thus even more important for a productive long-term relationship.

 

Now it sounds like a marriage of a couple who aren't really happy together. The danger is that if you do split, the chances are you'll never see it coming. More importantly though, a relationship like that is never fullfilling.

 

I feel sorry for the people actually performing the work. Where is the motivation to do a good job? Unless the pay is really THAT good! Even then, it'll sap your motivation.

 

And if your client's only comments on a design are "I don't fucking like it", then it is very hard to figure out what they do like. Last time we couldn't even pin him down on a color he wanted.

 

It's like going to a party and talking to a girl. Keep asking questions. Except in a party you ask questions that don't have yes/no answers. If your client is being particularly adversarial, then you specifically ask yes/no questions around the problem at hand.

 

G, same comment to you as I made to SD, you are welcome to have a talk with our client.

 

That's called work. That comes with a fee.

 

It is very easy to talk from the sidelines, but it's a lot different when actually in the frontlines.

 

You know my background. I walked away from the "harshest" frontlines in business anywhere. Business is like war. Some battles are worth giving up freeing your resources to be more productive elsewhere.

 

We had a very good project manager on this for 9 months and things were going great.

 

That can't be true! If things were going great, the client wouldn't have told you to replace him/her. Maybe it was great for you because the client was "out of your hair" but that's not a good business relationship (umm, not good management either sorry ).

 

It's not necessarily a reflection of a bad project manager either. Some people were made to not like/work together.

 

How is your company setup going? Found time for that yet?

 

All well and done. It pains me to sign the checks. 30k to the government last month in taxes. This month should be well over 60k+!

 

Things will slow over the coming few months thankfully (least that's the plan).

 

g-

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"Keep asking questions."

 

Most of which will either get completely ignored, or answered in such a way that they raise more questions than answers.

 

"That's called work. That comes with a fee."

 

Cop out

 

"If things were going great, the client wouldn't have told you to replace him/her."

 

Let's see, deadlines were being made, everybody was clear on the requirements, everybody knew the lines of communication, there were weekly progress reports outlining work done and problems encountered; basically the work got done at a good pace and to a high quality.

You can ask anyone at either our end or the clients (with exception of the head guy ) and they will tell you exactly the same. With the project manager in place things were going great, now we are back to fighting fires.

 

You are making the assumption that our client is rational. He isn't.

 

Sanuk!