Mr Tough Guy

[..]

"I, and many others on this board, had to go through the pains and cost of getting my wife her green card, so can they"

 

I'm not sure what you mean with that one... all male south american labourers should start giving head to american gay travellers and marry in San Francisco?? pretty weak there... obviously few people can get such a marriage ticket...

You're a moron. It means that they are very welcome if the apply for and get a green card via whatever method they can. If they steal over the boarder illegally, then they are criminals and should be dealt with as such. In other words, why do they deserve more leeway than a citizen of the country? I had to follow the rules, so should they.

 

It is not my problem if their country is fucked up. Maybe they should put all that industriousness into fixing their own country.

[kojis]

"I find your disregard for the laws of the land despicable. "

 

Dunno... easy shot for someone stating earlier how he was happy to be overseas so if the IRS or the goverment would hassle him, he would just tell them to fuck off and forget about the US... perhaps u should make ur mind on ur position and adopt a coherent stance.

 

As of the law of the land. Basicaly it's different in Myanmar and the US, Saudi and France... and i learnt long time ago to take it with a grain of salt- for the best I must say.

 

Yes u could argue when robbing a bank, a local or an illegal imigrant could argue that but they wouldn't get away with it. It just wouldn't work and there's not really a demand from that from the employers... U can't really accuse them to invite foreign labour to rob their bank. U miss the point, which is basically people go to the deepest hypocrisie to defend their often undeserved priviledges.

 

Now I'm out to buy a coffee machine. Yasee where the world is coming...

 

 

 

[kojis]

"In other words, why do they deserve more leeway than a citizen of the country"

 

Where did it come to "more" leeway?? locals don't get arrested for working in their own countries... it's about the same rights...

[Bangkoktraveler]

[color:red]"Look, everyone is supposed to do an I-9 on an employee. It would not be hard for the gummint to set up a database to simply cross-check the names/numbers pairs on the docs submitted to say if they are valid or not. Employer does the I-9, sends it to some place to check, then they send it back. Simple, not much cost, and no privacy issues."[/color]

 

Will the government allow such a database to exist? And who should bear the cost of maintaining and operating such database?

 

Your argument has the same flaws as the RealID argument has. Instead of making the government to enforce immigration laws, you want employers to enforce such laws. Employers do not have the authority to enforce any federal law. The same holds true to the RealID fiasco. The government wants to implement a federal ID but wants the States to bear the burden of the cost.

 

 

Instead of asking employers to enforce existing immigration laws, have you ever thought about asking the federal government to enforce the laws they are suppose to enforce?

 

 

[Bangkoktraveler]

b][color:red]

"It is not my problem if their country is fucked up."[/b]

[/color]

 

Actually, our country (the USA) is fucked up also for allowing foreigners to come here and do almost whatever they please. As citizens, we should be concerned as to why our government allows people to overstay and to enter into our country illegally. I sometimes wonder why our government looks the other way on such matters. Is there a bigger picture we are not seeing?

[cavanami]

The US government already has a HUGE database that it uses and maintains. It is used for the vetting of contractors, worldwide, when they work on US ships, military bases, etc.

 

The US gov just needs to ENFORCE the laws already on the books and to use the tools they already have!

[Old Hippie]

"...all male south american labourers should start giving head to american gay travellers and marry in San Francisco?? pretty weak there...."

 

Fantasizing again are you>

 

But on a serious note, I have heard your argument before, and it is interesting. But my main question is, what if we opened the USA borders, and were just over run with job/better life seekers? O.k. say we have jobs for 1 million, but 2-3-4-5++ Million show up? Now, who feeds them? Who Gives them medical treatment, police and fire protection etc...? Who will house them, and where? Housing prices etc would soar, and if they have no job, who pays?

 

Now, assume they do in fact lower the wages, where will the tax base come from to cover the cost of these people? It is not just as simple assaying "Open the borders and it will all sort itself out..."

 

As for you working illeagally in various countries...well, I could say shame, but last I checked, o.k. I never actually checked, but I understand Prostitution is illeagal in LOS, and I have engauged in it a time or 2, so glass houses and all, but still, I see a need for immigration controls based on the simple fact that no one country can absorb more people than it can support...

 

I will point out, that many Farm workers do come here legally, using seasonal visas and farm work visas...not sure why we can't set something else up, so at least these people would pay taxes, and a decent wage and get decent treatment.

 

A world with out borders in an idealistic concept, but it is really just that.

[Flashermac]

Not to worry, as I understand it being a prostitute is illegal, but patronising them is not. So you're okay.

 

Ummm ... I think that's how you mean you engaged in it.

 

[Hugh_Hoy]

Ummm ... I think that's how you mean you engaged in it.

 

Maybe he's one of CT's "smokin' hot" freebies?

 

HH

 

[kojis]

"A world with out borders in an idealistic concept, but it is really just that. "

 

 

**OH,

 

Youâ??ll definitely have a stronger point arguing on how difficult it would be opening the borders rather than insisting on how we should cut the balls to the poor little bastards for the atrocious crime of being ready to work harder than the locals for less money in exchange of an even tiny slice of the pie, while risking law enforcement wrath in the process.

 

Opening borders wouldnâ??t be an easy task.

 

Libertarians have been studying the issue quite a bit, I'm sure they've come up with some more human variation than my POV but basically that's how it goes:

 

 

â??But my main question is, what if we opened the USA borders, and were just over run with job/better life seekers? O.k. say we have jobs for 1 million, but 2-3-4-5++ Million show up? Now, who feeds them? Who Gives them medical treatment, police and fire protection etc...? Who will house them, and where? Housing prices etc would soar, and if they have no job, who pays?

 

 

 

**You missed one of the main concepts: nobody feeds or cures or houses anybody for free, except if heâ??s willing too. Society definitely doesnâ??t have to. Theyâ??re entitled to look for a job but get zero social welfare. It would cool the enthusiasm of quite a few immigrants.

 

Important point is locals get the same treatments. If theyâ??re not productive, and canâ??t attract compassion from individuals or private charities, they starve. If they canâ??t afford accommodation, likely they end up in shantytowns. If they canâ??t afford proper medical treatment, they go on with their illness. And the same goes with security, youâ??d have private police protecting the ones able to afford that protection.

 

 

 

 

 

â??Now, assume they do in fact lower the wages, where will the tax base come from to cover the cost of these people? It is not just as simple assaying "Open the borders and it will all sort itself out..."

 

 

 

**What taxes?? No welfare, nor public serviceâ?¦ no tax thenâ?¦

 

 

 

â?ÂAs for you working illeagally in various countries...â?Â

 

 

 

**Interestingly Switzerland is home of one of the most active libertarian scene, and in the same time where I started working without a neither resident nor work permit. I still keep a soft spot for Zurich. Was looking for some libertarian web links but it seems http://www.prolibertate.ch/html/ is only in German at the moment.

 

You can check the following though, in English although I donâ??t know how interesting it is:

 

http://www.libertarian.com/

 

 

 

On a final note, a particular reason I despise protectionism from western lower classes is that it comes from people who, despite being grown up in countries where the social benefits are so strong and the opportunities to go up the social ladder so numerousâ??even more in continental Europe than in the US according to studies- and who are entitled to travel in most of the world without hassle, they have still not been able to profit of the situation and they try to push down much more enterprising foreigners who obviously would show how little productive those same lower classes are. If thereâ??s only a certain amount of air to be breathed, let it be by the productive ones.