MaiLuk Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Its important that a home owner/renter have the right to shoot someone who breaks into their home. Acts as a good deterrent not to mention that its based on a thousand years of anglo-saxon history. (This has nothing to do with this Martin Connely guy since we don't have the real story yet.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartThais Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I think it is also history that you used to be able to slap someone in the face with a glove and then duel to the death. It's been the natural evolution of most cultures that the right of violence is taken away from individuals and reserved for governments only. It's reasonable to debate whether we are at a stage in our evolution where lethal violence is never justified unless absolutely necessary. I think someone said it best. This could have turned out into some bruised egos and maybe someone getting carted off to jail in handcuffs. Instead someone's dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaiLuk Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 >>right of violence is taken away from individuals and reserved for governments only.<< Yes that is the idea and is why we no longer have longstanding feuds between families. The state stepped in and applied the law and the matter was resolved. But (you knew there was a but ) there is a current of thought in the US and in some other places that the government has become too involved in private affairs of its citizens, that large numbers of citizens have become dependent on the government for a veritable laundry list of matters that people used to take care of themselves, and the idea that the government should be solely responsible for personal security is not only impractable but amounts to an overwhelming government intrusion into personal liberty. I definitely believe individual security is the primary responsibility of the individual. If the cops show up to help out thats great but there is no way i'm depending on that because they will not be there at the moment you are threatened. >>I think someone said it best. This could have turned out into some bruised egos and maybe someone getting carted off to jail in handcuffs. Instead someone's dead.<< I'll grant you that is a possibility. Its also a possibility that the guy with the gun would be dead if he did not have the gun. We don't know the facts unfortunately. In any event, the fact that guns are misused is not a good reason to deprive lawful gun owners of their right to use a gun for defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I'm the one who has been saying "shoot to wound", if at all. Out of curiousity, I wonder if anyone in this discussion beside me has ever actually FIRED a weapon at another human being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartThais Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 How does experience firing a weapon at someone make a difference? If this was a discussion of the best tactic for killing someone, yeah, you probably could benefit from some experience/training in killing people. But this is a philosophical discussion of an individual's right to violent and mortal action/reaction in today's society. There is no right or wrong answer here, just the law and ongoing opinion. Personally, I find many more serious offenses to my freedoms than someone taking away my right to kill someone. I'd much more concerned about the right of the government to force me to kill other people. Or governments taking away a third of my productivity and spending it without my approval and full transparency. Or telling me where I can travel, what I am allowed to do in the privacy of my home, or what I do with other consenting adults. People who get super riled up when their right to kill is threatened are usually the ones that only see the most obvious and literal threats to their freedom... which is why if you line up a bunch of people in the US, it's pretty easy to tell who the gun-crazy people are after you hear them speak a few sentences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I knew my question would cause a stir. That's why I asked it. My reason is that it's not as easy to pull the trigger on another human as some people seem to think. That is one argument against untrained people keeping a firearm in their home. A surprising number of people freeze up when it comes to pulling that trigger. An armed intruder is not likely to have any such reluctance. Until you have been faced with a life or death situation, you do not know how you will act. Pointing a gun at someone could very well end up getting you killed. People seem to be forgetting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddy Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 teddy, I hate to be the one to tell you, but a Mossberg is a fine weapon in close range, especially if the shotgun has pistol grips. Where I live in the USA, the police recommend citizens to have such weapons for self defense. And like JJ said, if you live in Thailand out in the sticks, you would learn one way or another to protect yourself just like the Thais do. So please don't take this personal, but we are told where I live that we still have the right to protect ourselves. Now if the situation reported was different and you was the American, what would you have done? Where I live at the moment there is a complete nutjob on the loose. We have been warned via the school that my daughter attends that this nutjob is in our neighbourhood and is knocking on peoples doors. When the residents answers the door, a local man is there, pretending to be mentally insane and pleading with the unsuspecting occupants that they drive him to the police station so that he can find out where he lives. An expat husband and wife actually agreed to this request and let the man into the back of their car. Shortly after starting their journey to the police station the maniac pulled out an enormous meat cleaver and threatened to chop them up into little pieces, fortunately the driver could handle himself and managed to get the maniac out of the car before he could do any real damage. The expats escaped with only a small wound to the man. When they informed the police, they were told that this maniac had been on the loose for a few weeks but they had been unable to catch him. A couple of nights ago my doorbell rang. I have a video entry system so I was able to see who it was. I didn't recognise the man at the door so decided to ignore it. He rang again and so I went to the kitchen and picked up two of the largest cooking knives I had, serious monsters. I then went to the door and opened it, my adrenaline rushing and my heart pumping. I opened the door and I was quite prepared to give him one knife in the heart and one in the neck to protect my family. So please don't think that I am against the right to protect oneself, all I am saying is that living in a gun culture and having guns around ones home will always lead to unecessary deaths, particularly when acohol is also involved as appears to be the case with here with the original thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartThais Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I thought the discussion is whether you should be *allowed* to have a gun at home not whether you *should* have a gun at home. I agree, of course, that if you've not been properly trained, you probably shouldn't have a gun at home. And the reason the statement would cause me to respond is because there are a lot of idiots who think you can have an opinion on things like guns and wars only after you've been a soldier. P.S. I did own a gun and I was trained. It happened after I got mugged and for a brief time I went temporarily insane and fantasized about blowing a hole in the guys head the next time I got mugged. So I got a gun and a permit to carry concealed (which is incredibly easy in the state of Pennsylvania). I came back to my senses and left the gun , key locked, in my kitchen drawer next to the aluminum foil (I live alone). My landlord threw a party while I was away and one of his guests stole my gun. So now there is some idiot running around with my gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashermac Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 The discussion began with the murder (in my opinion anyway) of a Brit under circumstances not yet really known by us. Since then it has wandered around like a cow path in a pasture! At home in the States, I do have a shotgun and several rifles in my bedroom room -- upstairs. Resting downstairs by the front door is a policeman's billy club - quite sufficient to discourage most intruders. p.s. It is also easy to get a permit to carry in my home town. Many of my friends have a permit and do go armed at night. I never have nor wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kojis Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 " I didn't recognise the man at the door so decided to ignore it. He rang again and so I went to the kitchen and picked up two of the largest cooking knives I had, serious monsters. I then went to the door and opened it, my adrenaline rushing and my heart pumping. I opened the door and I was quite prepared to give him one knife in the heart and one in the neck to protect my family. " So who was it you scared shitless at the door? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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