Jesse Helms Dies

[Bangkoktraveler]

Wasn't Lincoln a Republican?

 

 

[Julian2]

I'm not into hugs, in my country real men show affection by sharing a few beers then punching each other out in an argument over football.

[Steve]

Wasn't Lincoln a Republican?

 

 

In those days the Republicans were the good guys. :smirk:

[Flashermac]

Lincoln was once a Whig, later a Republican. His second term he ran on the Union Party ticket - made up of Republicans and pro-war Democrats. He might well have lost the second time, if Jeff Davis hadn't foolishly changed commmanders in Georgia.

 

 

 

 

[rogueyam]

Just out of curiosity, do you find your above quote as polarizing? I mean, do you think virtually everyone on the board is going to agree with you, or do you think you might find some who vehemently disagree with the above statement? Soooooo, that would make you polarizing...right?

 

You miss the point. Leftists label conservatism (but not leftism) "polarizing" as a means of implicitly declaring it illegitimate. This is irrational and dishonest, no matter how much you love steve.

 

While I agree this dialectic is used by many on the left, it's also used by global corporate neo-cons on the right.

 

Nobody, including yourself, has any idea what is referred to here by the phrase "global corporate neo-cons on the right". Further, what you are saying about them, whoever they are, is bullshit. The charge of "polarization" is a leftist charge directed exclusively at conservatives. Everyone who follows American politics knows that.

 

Helms (albeit a "product of his generation") DID in fact make several deragatory statements about "negros".

 

Name one and explain why you agree with steve that Sen. Helms' defining characteristic was his "racism".

 

Here, by way of marked contrast, is a piece that speaks to the real Jesse Helms. Those of us who are not blinded by tribalism but rather who believe in truth and freedom will recognize from this article that Sen. Helms was a political hero of the first order:

 

washingtonpost.com > Columns

 

The Jesse Helms You Should Remember

 

By Marc Thiessen

Monday, July 7, 2008

 

With the passing of Sen. Jesse Helms, the media have demonstrated one final time that they never fully understood the power or impact of this great man. Consider, for example, The Post's obituary of Helms; here are some things you would not learn about his life and legacy by reading it:

 

As chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Helms led the successful effort to bring Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic into the NATO alliance. He secured passage of bipartisan legislation to protect our men and women in uniform from the International Criminal Court. He won overwhelming approval for his legislation to support the Cuban people in their struggle against a tyrant. He won majority support in the Senate for his opposition to the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. He helped secure passage of the National Missile Defense Act and stopped the Clinton administration from concluding a new anti-ballistic missile agreement in its final months in office -- paving the way for today's deployment of America's first defenses against ballistic missile attack. He helped secure passage of the Iraq Liberation Act, which expressed strong bipartisan support for regime change in Baghdad. He secured broad, bipartisan support to reorganize the State Department and bring much-needed reform to the United Nations, and he became the first legislator from any nation to address the U.N. Security Council -- a speech few in that chamber will forget.

 

Watching this record of achievement unfold, columnist William Safire wrote in 1997: "Jesse Helms, bete noire of knee-jerk liberals . . . is turning out to be the most effectively bipartisan chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee since Arthur Vandenberg. . . . Let us see if he gets the credit for statesmanship that he deserves from a striped-pants establishment." This weekend, we got our answer.

 

What his critics could not appreciate is that, by the time he left office, Jesse Helms had become a mainstream conservative. And it was not because Helms had moved toward the mainstream -- it was because the mainstream moved toward him.

 

When Helms arrived in Washington in 1973, conservatives were a minority not only in our nation's capital but also within the Republican Party. He often took to the floor as the lonely opposition in 99-to-1 votes. By the time he became chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee in 1995, Republicans were in the majority in the Senate and conservatives were in control of the Republican Party. And Helms was winning floor votes by wide bipartisan majorities.

 

What made Helms stand out was his willingness to stand up for his beliefs before they were widely held -- even if it meant challenging those closest to him. In 1985, his dear friend Ronald Reagan was preparing for his first summit with Mikhail Gorbachev when a Ukrainian sailor named Miroslav Medvid twice jumped off a Soviet ship into the Mississippi River seeking political asylum. The Soviets insisted that Medvid had accidentally fallen off -- twice. The State Department did not want an international incident on the eve of the summit. But Helms believed it was wrong to send a man back behind the Iron Curtain -- no matter the cost to superpower diplomacy. He tried to block the ship's departure by requiring the sailor to appear before the Senate Agriculture Committee, which he chaired then -- and he had the subpoena delivered to the ship's unwitting captain in a carton of North Carolina cigarettes.

 

Despite Helms's efforts, the ship was allowed to leave for the Soviet Union with the Ukrainian sailor aboard. Miroslav Medvid was not heard from again until 15 years later, when he came to Washington to visit the man who fought so hard for his freedom. I was working at the time on Helms's Foreign Relations Committee staff and witnessed this emotional meeting. Yes, Medvid told Helms, he had been trying to escape -- that was why he joined the Merchant Marine in the first place. When he was returned to the Soviet Union, he said, he was incarcerated in a mental hospital for the criminally insane. The KGB tried to drug him, but a sympathetic nurse injected the drugs into his mattress. Eventually he was released; today he is a parish priest in his native village in Ukraine.

 

In the course of dozens of interrogations, he told Helms, "the KGB didn't fulfill its desire about what they wanted to do with me. They were afraid of something," he said, "and now I know what they were afraid of." They were afraid of Jesse Helms.

 

President Bush had it right when he said on Friday that "from Central America to Central Europe and beyond, people remember: In the dark days when the forces of tyranny seemed on the rise, Jesse Helms took their side." This is the Jesse Helms that Miroslav Medvid remembers. Unfortunately, it was not the Jesse Helms written about this weekend.

 

The writer, the chief White House speechwriter, was Foreign Relations Committee spokesman for Sen. Jesse Helms from 1995 to 2001.

 

 

[Steve]

Lincoln was once a Whig, later a Republican. His second term he ran on the Union Party ticket - made up of Republicans and pro-war Democrats. He might well have lost the second time, if Jeff Davis hadn't foolishly changed commmanders in Georgia.

 

 

 

 

General McClellan of the Union was one of the best things that happened to the Confederacy. He was inept to the point it was criminal. The Confederacy had better generals. Lincoln offered the job to Lee but he couldn't fight against his home state of Virginia.

 

I also think that had things been a bit more even in terms of material, army, etc., it would have swung to the Confederacy.

 

Someone summed it up succintly I think when they said our Civil War was modern weapons meeting old dated tactics. Carnage was the result.

 

Interestingly enough Great Britain was close to recognizing the Confederacy when they were winning some battles. Money was the issue. Those mills in Manchester, England and other places needed southern cotton. Plus the union blockade hurt trade. When Lincoln freed the slaves GB had no choice to side with the Union. The British empire had freed slaves in the late 1830s and it moved the moral issue of the war over to siding with the union.

 

Fascinating war. Not many people know its by far the bloodiest war in American history. Most think its WW2 or Vietnam. Not even close.

 

 

 

[Steve]

Didn't see much in there of repudiating segragationist south and that the Civil Rights Act was a good thing. I'll keep looking....

 

We can argue whether it was deserved or not but his reputation was one of divisive politics based in part on race. That was my point. So learned he didn't like commies. Wow, that's brave.

 

Just like a lot of politicians that died but were not well liked as a whole by the majority of the nation (and no one claim Helms, the person and ideology was widely liked across the country), or had major scandals that they were known primarily for (Nixon), corrupt (Mayor Daley of Chicago)etc., they will be remembered fondly rather than harshly.

 

Its hard to think of any modern politician that has died that is scorned in death.

[Bangkoktraveler]

When you look at Senator Helmes 'achievements', to me they are not to impressive.

 

[color:red]"As chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Helms led the successful effort to bring Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic into the NATO alliance. [/color]

I will give him credit for that.

 

[color:red]"He secured passage of bipartisan legislation to protect our men and women in uniform from the International Criminal Court. [/color]Disagree. If soldiers commit crimes, they should be prossecuted. Simple.

 

 

[color:red]"He won overwhelming approval for his legislation to support the Cuban people in their struggle against a tyrant. [/color]

Disagree. USA hatred of Cuba is a work of bigotry.

 

 

[color:red]"He won majority support in the Senate for his opposition to the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. [/color] Disagree.

 

[color:red]"He helped secure passage of the National Missile Defense Act and stopped the Clinton administration from concluding a new anti-ballistic missile agreement in its final months in office -- paving the way for today's deployment of America's first defenses against ballistic missile attack. [/color]

Disagree. Our greatest enemy is ourselves. 4 missiles were improvised on 9/11/2001 and as a nation, we did absolutely nothing. Deplorable.

 

[color:red]"He helped secure passage of the Iraq Liberation Act, which expressed strong bipartisan support for regime change in Baghdad.[/color]Disagree. Getting rid of Sadum Hussain made the region more unstable and has effected world economies.

 

[rogueyam]

We can argue whether it was deserved or not but his reputation was one of divisive politics based in part on race. That was my point.

 

More garbage. What you call "his reputation" is instead leftist talking points. Only people who are both crazy and stupid truly believe that leftist propaganda is identical to reality. And again with the "divisive" (which is just another was of saying "polarizing"). We get it steve. Conservatism is divisive and leftism is unifying. Jeeze. The only reason you keep repeating this weak nonsense is because you have absolutely nothing else.

 

So learned he didn't like commies. Wow, that's brave.

 

It is because Jesse Helms opposed communism that you have vilified and slandered him constantly since you first heard of him. Sen. Helms knew this would be the case but he soldiered on regardless. This is the very definition of political courage. That you are incapable of understanding such a simple and obvious point, steve, is proof of your own intellectual and moral failings.

 

Just like a lot of politicians that died but were not well liked as a whole by the majority of the nation (and no one claim Helms, the person and ideology was widely liked across the country)...

 

Compared to what and whom?

 

Its hard to think of any modern politician that has died that is scorned in death.

 

Ronald Reagan. Jesse Helms. Leftists scorn conservatives in death as in life. You are doing it on this thread, steve. What the hell are you talking about?

[rogueyam]

Disagree. If soldiers commit crimes, they should be prossecuted. Simple.

 

They are and you know it. Cut the crap.