Church says sorry to Charles Darwin

[Faustian]

I looked up a few places on the web and it seems you can be a evolutionist about everything else except people - which a very odd take.

 

It's a very odd faith..

 

[Flashermac]

Muhammad was a camel driver in caravans in his youth. He liked to sit around the camp fire and discuss religion with others - Christians (Nestorian, non-Trinitarian), Jews (Arab converts) etc. Then he thought hard about about it and after his famous cave fast decided that he was Allah's final and greatest prophet. Thus there are bits and pieces of Judaism and Christianity altered and revised to fit his own "mission". Aso, when he had a revalation (sort of like channeling a few years back), there almost always seemed to be something of benefit to Muhammad in them. Most convenient.

 

 

The very organisation of the Qu'ran is bizarre. It is not an historical chronology, as it the Bible. Instead, it is organised by length - with the shortests "surahs" at the beginning and the longest at the end.

 

I've read the Qu'ran in English translation. I went into it with an open mind, but nothing in it convinced me of anything. Fascinating to see what Muslims really believe though. Some of it is rather frightening. e.g. Slavery is good; polygamy is good; women are evil deceivers; killing your enemies is Allah's will; Allah has set very strict standards of behaviour, the penalty for violating of which is instant death.

 

Muhammad (or rather the Angel Gabriel supposedly speaking through him) confuses persons and evens on a number of times. But clearly the Hebrews must have been mistaken. Muhammad knew better, even a thousand or more years after the event.

 

 

 

[Faustian]

As a shrink, it is always amusing to think that nowadays he would've been labeled a schizophrenic (or psychotic) and medicated, but what do I know...

[Flashermac]

He was violent and cruel. e.g. When several of his followers abandoned Islam and went back to the old faith, Muhammad had them spread-eagled on a sand dune to die. Their eyelids were sliced off so they couldn't even shut them against the bright sun. People didn't dare do anything for them, for fear they would end up the same way. Another time, a village of Arab converts to Judaism warned him the Meccas were coming to attack him at Medina. Muhammad gathered his forces and defeated the Meccans in battle. Instead of thanking the villagers for their warning, he was furious because they had not joined his army. He ordered all of the men to convert to Islam or be killed. One man converted, the rest choice death rather than abandon their faith. Muhammad then picked the women he wanted and let his followers have the rest as slaves and concubines. Yet Muslims will insist that Muhammad was the only man who has ever lived "who was without sin".

 

Mind you, Muhammad did this in the 7th century AD, which was a pretty wild time. But to defend such deeds today and say they are not sinful is beyond comprehension.

 

 

[Steve]

Muhammad fit the religion to the culture. Multiple wives is one concession. He definitely took Judaism and Christianity and made it his own. Some could say the same of Christianity as well.

 

There were a lot of false prophets in his days and Jews and Christians were wary of those that claimed to be a prophet. He was rejected by them and I think helped create animoisty between the religions.

 

Christianity was similar. The 'word' was for the Jews and when Jews rejected it, it was preached to the non Jews. I think this helped create some animosity between the two. Later writings of the desciples had a stronger anti Jewish strain to it.

 

At the end of the day Islam, Christianity and Judasim are religions of faith not fact. So many of it has to be trusted without scientific evidence supporting it. Which is why I can understand the disdain for it and don't take offense to those that have a serious problem with it and question my sanity...which is questionable outside of religion anyway. :smirk:

 

 

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

 

"There were a lot of false prophets in his days"

 

What is the difference between a false prophet and a 'real' prophet? Getting away with the scam?

 

Sanuk!

 

[Faustian]

A real prophet is one who kills the most people and has the most violent and sadistic supporters. The false ones don't make the hideous torturing, raping and murdering grade.

[loner w/a boner]

Hi,

 

"There were a lot of false prophets in his days"

 

What is the difference between a false prophet and a 'real' prophet? Getting away with the scam?Sanuk!

Greeeetings KS!

 

A "true prophet" is one who receives a vision of the future from God, Himself. It ALWAYS comes true.

 

A false prophet , such as Balam, is either a total huckster, or receives some visions, some of which come true, some of which don't. Typically they were stoned to death.

 

One "true prophet" which didn't come true is worthy of note. God told Jonah to go to the village of Nineveh and tell them the Lord was going to destroy them. He told them. Then out of fear they "repented", so the Lord didn't destroy them. The Lord told Jonah, and Jonah got pissed that God didn't commit genocide--Jonah didn't like looking like a false prophet.

 

There's also another even stranger account in the Bible. King Solomon wanted to consult with the previous High Priest, Samuel. Previous, coz he was dead. So Solomon goes to a witch to conjure up Samuel's spirit. Freaky stuff.

 

Cheers!

 

[Flashermac]

If there is such a thing as a prophet, I'd say a real one is someone who gets nothing out of it. If there is something in it for him - wealth, women, power etc - he's obviously lying through his teeth.

 

p.s. I think the Jewish and Christian belief is that prophets died out several thousand years ago. Muslims and Mormons naturally disagree with that.

 

 

 

 

[loner w/a boner]

If there is such a thing as a prophet, I'd say a real one is someone who gets nothing out of it.

Yep, according to the Biblical record, the Kings lived like, well, uh, kings, the concubines, wealth, etc...The profits, er, uh, prophets were poor, miserable wretches, many eating insects and wondering about. Ezekiel covered himself with dung. Going around having judgmental and apocalyptic visions would be really tough psychologically, and get you institutionalized today.

 

p.s. I think the Jewish and Christian belief is that prophets died out several thousand years ago. Muslims and Mormons naturally disagree with that.

Well, according to New Testament teachings the early disciples prophesied. Even in the early church there is reference to prophecy, raising the dead, speaking in tongues. But they would stop until the very end "where there are tongues, they shall cease".

 

There are also references about in the end times, "your old men will see visions and dream dreams", or some such thing. And the two witnesses that appear in Revelation 11 are Elijah and Moses, symbolically if not literally (Elijah having never died but taken up to heaven in a chariot of fire).

 

Cheers!