PAD protests...

[drogon]

Waht disturbs me in Thailand from the "corruption" point of view compared to western countries is its extent.

 

Politicians are of course (in all countries) easily tempted but what amazes me is the "corruption culture" ranging from a family buying the child's diploma, police officers, every sector of the society.

 

Of course in our countries we all know cases of corrupt cops etc...but not to this extent.

 

If I was really wealthy I am pretty sure I could buy pretty much anything even my freedom if in jail for a serious crime (of course not a very big crime and you can't buy people who are richer than you).

 

As long as the system works in this way so systematically I feel Thai society will never evolve in a fast and efficient way.

 

Time to clean it up but we are not entitled to give lessons to the country of free men nope?

 

Strange thing is most Thais I know (especially the middle class ones who have to deal on a daily basis with these issues) are perfectly conscious of the problem and don't like it...but like in most Asian societies I suppose that going against the system is not good (especially if you wish to keep your job)

[cavanami]

I would agree that corruption per the population, is much worse then in like the USA.

 

When I have dealings with the police in the USA (traffic tickets, minor things), I never consider offering any bribe (tea money)...where as in LOS, yes, a common and expected procedure!

 

What grinds my gears here in the USA, is the "legalized" corruption, called lobbying, where "favors" are exchanged for cash (campaign contributions, etc).

This process is pure and open corruption that eats away at the moral and economic fabric of the USA. Grrrrrr, the average person in the USA is helpless as I feel the US gov is completely out of the hands and control of the people!

[drogon]

Two things I never understood with the USA system.

- Lobbying? This is basically buying politicians to me...

 

- Election system: Why the number of "delegates" have to end up electing the president, why not let the popular vote decide???

 

Does it have something to do with the constitution or is it something which evolved through time and a reflect of USA society??

[rogueyam]

Does it have something to do with the constitution or is it something which evolved through time and a reflect of USA society??

 

The procedure for electing the U.S. President is spelled out explicitly in the U.S. Constitution.

 

[drogon]

Thanks for the explanation RY.

[waerth]

This thread is about Thailand not about the US. For discussions about the US political system go to the Board Bar or find another forum please

[Faustian]

Thailand wont change for a long time. The old money and the new will wrestle for power until a happy medium is discovered, but that seems a very remote possibility now. There isn't anyone around who doesn't fall into, or have links with either of the 2 ruling factions.

 

An all out revolution would be the only solution and even then the vacuum would be filled by new faces with the same links as now, the institutions that exist will always find someone to be the public face, so the background deals can continue. It looks like we will see a succession of new names/faces for the foreseeable future, all either mired in corruption or with links to Mr T and his cadre, usually no doubt both. A never ending supply of shit.

 

This crisis will blow over eventually, with either the much anticipated court case causing a dissolution of the PPP, or with some acts of senseless violence. There will be more. A strong personality is required and the only one around is seemingly Mr T! A sad state of affairs to be sure.

 

Ironically Somchai's handling of this affair is looking more and more astute, taking the soft route seems to have worked so far. It remains to be seen how long this can go on for. Who will blink first?

[Mentors]

i see no news here, i'ts a tragedy.

even my Alp neighbour Austria sending now a few of Anti-terror Troups (!) to evacuate 600 stranded Austrians after a help call from their Embassy.

Do someone in this country really realise what they are doing? NO! Mai mii pan ha.

 

:offline:

[bust]

By MARWAAN MACAN-MARKAR / IPS WRITER Monday

 

BANGKOK â?? Stories of Thai men getting into fatal fights during a night of drinking are common in the local press. But the killing of Somchai, a 37-year-old man, reveals something more ominous.

 

The murder justified the fears of some Thai analysts that the country is being torn apart by Thais attacking each other in political rage stemming from the clashes between a right-wing, anti-government protest movement and pro-government sympathizers.

 

Thousands of pro-government supporters rally in Bangkok on November 30. (Photo: Reuters)

On November 27, Somchai and two male friends had been drinking on the side of a road in a residential part of Samut Prakan, an industrial town south of Bangkok.

 

It was a little after 10 pm Their conversation centered around the siege of Bangkok's international airport earlier in the week by the right-wing protesters, throttling the country's important tourism and economic lifelines. The three men were angered by this siege, which is still continuing.

 

It was then that Boonrak, a 70-year-old man from that neighborhood, appeared, according to an account in the Thai-language â??Daily News' paper. He had overheard what Somchai and his friends were saying and did not agree.

 

Boonrak, according to the paper, was returning home after having spent the entire day at the Suvarnabhumi international airport, supporting the right-wing protesters. Boonrak tried to convince Somchai and his friends that they were wrong, but he was ignored by the three men.

 

Boonrak went home, returned with a gun and shot the three men, the paper revealed. Somchai, who was shot in the temple, died en route to the hospital. His two friends were shot in the back but survived.

 

Such murders arising from the political rage spreading through this country are becoming more frequent. Victims have come from both sides of the political divide, exposing fault lines where the anger between the pro- and anti- government is so bitter that efforts to strike a compromise by some neutral academics have made little headway.

 

An anti-goverment protester dances in front of a poster of former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra at the Suvarnabhumi airport compound on Monday. (Photo: AP)

The day before Somchai was killed, a staunch supporter of the anti-government movement was killed in a knife attack by pro-government sympathizers in the northern city of Chiang Mai. "(They) physically attacked him 15 times before killing (him),'' said Terdsak Jiamkitwattana, about his father, Settha, in a petition presented to the Senate human rights committee, according to the local media.

 

 

A pre-dawn bomb attack on Sunday at an anti-government protest siteâ??the prime minister's officeâ??resulted in 48 people injured. A similar attack, when an improvised explosive devise had been fired on to the same site, occurred earlier. And a satellite television station, the mouthpiece of the anti-government protesters, had a grenade lobbed into its premises.

 

Fears of more Thai-upon-Thai violence increased this week after reports emerged of the police apprehending vehicles driven by anti-government supporters that had weapons and implements meant for an assault.

 

One vehicle caught by the police on Friday had an Uzi submachine gun, homemade guns, ammunition, sling shots, bullet-proof vests and metal rods, a police source told IPS. The vehicle had the universally recognized Red Cross signs on its exterior to give the impression it was being used for medical emergencies.

 

The Uzi guns may have come from the armory of the police special branch unit in the prime minister's office, the police source added. The premier's officeâ??or Government House, as it is known hereâ??has been occupied by the anti-government protesters since late August. The 10 Uzi guns that were in the special branch's armory in Government House are reportedly missing, the police source revealed.

 

A few days before the car with the weapons was impounded, there was a clash between pro- and anti-government supporters on a wide street in northern Bangkok.

 

Armed guards of the anti-government group were filmed on camera shooting at pro-government supporters with live rounds of bullets. Behind the men firing with revolvers was another anti-government supporter holding up a picture of the country's monarch.

 

The anti-government Peoples Alliance for Democracy (PAD) is backed by urban middle-class Thais, royalists and the entrenched elite. Its political agenda, which has a passionate following, goes against what its name implies. The PAD wants to slash the power of the vote and is calling for a military coup, the country's 19th.

 

Its successful siege of the Suvarnabhumi airport on November 25, which is still going on, was the latest in similar assaults that have been possible due to the impunity it enjoys to break the laws of the country. The PAD wants to bring down the coalition government elected last December with this stranglehold.

 

But this has worsened the anger in many pro-government strongholds, most of which are in the poorer north-eastern belts, such as Khon Kaen, where the forced closure of the airport has taken anti-PAD anger to new levels. â??'It is clear that there is growing impatience among many people against the PAD and its antics,'' says David Streckfuss, an US academic specializing in Thai political culture, currently based in Khon Kaen.

 

 

"People who were normally not interested in politics, like the woman who sells grilled chicken, the tailor, the owner of a shrimp restaurant are getting more politically involved,'' he told IPS. "More and more, they are getting angry at the PAD.''

 

In fact, the Thai-against-Thai clashes over the differing political ideologies that the country is witnessing has â??'shattered the myth of unity that has been papered over the many social and political cleavages in Thailand,'' adds Streckfuss. "It was a myth propagated by the elites, whose idea of Thai unity was one of submissionâ??the poor to the rich.''

 

Chaturon Chaiseng, a former cabinet minister and sympathizer of the government, warns of more clashes ahead as the prevailing political climate worsens. "The country will come close and closer to seeing more violence,'' he told a few journalists on Friday. "You will see things worse than this.''

[Faustian]

That's yet another doom and gloom piece...lots of these lately. I hope they are wrong. Very scary stuff and I'm not sure I want to be here if it all kicks off.