Work in BKK?

[ThaiHome]

There is envy and resentment and then there’s Bembaman.

I refuse to feel guilty about the deal I have working in Thailand. This makes up for the year working in Malaysia living a shithole hotel, or the 2 years in a camp in India, 18 months in some jungle in Indonesia, or etc, etc. I have moved 6 times in the last 10 years, 3 times in the last 3 years. I expect to move again sometime this year, probably to China (that will make 4 times in 4 years). To say that local expats put up with shit the MNC’s wouldn’t or couldn’t shows a real ignorance of what being a expat for a MNC is about. Thailand is not the usual foreign assignment; so do not judge MNC's by what you see here. Usually I am in a van or bus being driven to work, unlike the car and driver I get here. I have lived in 5’x10’ room working 100+ hours a week for 3 months at time, unlike the 200 sq meter high rise apt and 40 hour week I get here. So, don’t give me any shit about getting real, I know real, I just am not sure the local expats know real (it sure isn’t Thailand).

My statement on local expats being untrustworthy was probably too harsh. I feel real anger over the recent experience I wrote about. This person’s action cost my company a very large contract, which would have allowed me to stay here for 2 more years. There is no doubt he acted in his best interest (since his new company got the contract), but without any ethics. I shouldn’t hold that against all local expats, I apologize for the generalization.

As far as the Saturday afternoon beers, after the usual round of golf in the morning, the wife and I like to stop by a bar owned by retired employee of my company. Similar to the Friday evening get together in the Woodstock, on Saturday afternoons, people that have retired here, guys on R&R from Saudi or other assignments, stop in and catch up with each other. There are also people trying to network (as described by Bembaman). There are also the usual basic losers.

I think the local expats in Thailand are in for a very hard time in the future, particularly in the construction business. The focus of the MNC’s has shifted almost completely to China at this point and there is going to be very little work in Thailand for the next several years. The ability for a local expat to work and live in Thailand is going to get more and more difficult. I hope I am wrong, but the local expats I know are very worried about the future.

[Bembaman]

Envy? I do not remember expressing envy. I also did not mention my financial circs which having been a true expat prior to coming to Thailand are in pretty good shape. You see, I am not ignorant about being an true expat; I have done both. I have worked on 4 continents and done similar to you, including central Africa and having no water for 10 days at a time. You are not unique and many local expats have been true expats before; the divide you seek to create is not necessarily real.

In some ways I would like to work for a MNC such as a Lonrho as before but I chose not to return to UK and to come here as a local expat. I earn more than several MNC 'true expat' people I know by the way, whose packages are bulked out with stuff I do not need. I do not have kids so I don't give a toss about school fees or return flights, other 'perks' (membership of the british club paid? don't make me laugh!) because I do not want to get back there (B22,000 with Emirates last time I went back-not exactly going to break the bank). You have chosen to twist the inference of my words because you realise you wrote in haste in your previous post and are now having to back-track a bit.

I think you are right by the way about local expats being in for a hard time. The only reason i am staying where I am is to maintain the continuity of the CV, not for the job which is rapidly losing its appeal as you can imagine! I am ready to move on when the time is right.

If you feel anger at one individual express it to him, not everyone else.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Bembaman ]

[racha]

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: racha ]

[Guest]

THAIHOME,

we're not discussing how hard was life for everyone of us.

It's impossible to make general statments about finding a job in Thailand.

I think, as resident in the country, that it's wrong to create illusions to people who think that to come and to work in thailand is easy. It's not true!

We all know this very well.

It may be that someone had more luck than another one but that's all.

Thailand isn,t a paradise (except for the girls, of course!).

By the way, you are right about the contruction business. I work in it (foreigner financial investment) and a lot of money from Europe is walking the chinese way. Me too am expexted to move to China by the end of the year.

Regards

Swissman66

[ThaiHome]

Bembaman,

I did not create, nor seek to create a divide, it was already there when I entered this thread.

I was trying to explain how local expats are perceived by one MNC, and why we do not hire them often. Your comments on networking are certainly correct, if we do hire a local expat,it is almost always based on a recomendation from a longtime employee.

TH

swissman66,

I don't think I created an illusion that working in Thailand is easy (though you will note that at least 3 of us claiming to have jobs in Thailand are making posts during working hours). I will say that for me, living conditions are not bad.

You are absolutly correct in there are no generalizations on finding work here.

TH

[khunsanuk]

Hi,

I'm with Benbaman on this, agreeing on most of the issues he has brought up.

I too got my second job through connections. A friend (who I met through boards like this btw) told me about an opening at his company, figuring I was right for the job. Got an interview and was hired.

The first job though I got from the newspaper, didn't even take that long (about 4-5 weeks I think), but this was back in late '97. Both jobs are/were in IT, btw.

I will most likely be looking for another job in about half a year. I am hired as a subcontractor and it seems very likely that my part in the project will end by September.

While I will be checking the newspapers as well, my hopes are more focused on hearing about jobs from friends.

As for Thaihome's comment on local expats being untrustworthy, I think you are generalizing way too much and I did take offence to the statement. Since you have already apoligized and kinda retracted it I won't press the issue though.

Anyway, I can kinda see where you are coming from since there are plenty of expats out there that have come here for all the wrong reasons, and have no real interest in working other than to make enough money to sustain their lifestyle of partying as much as possible. I suppose any company could do without people like this.

They, however, are not the only kind of local expats in Thailand.

Sanuk!

[Bembaman]

By the way THAIHOME, can you point out where exactly in my post I attempt to make you feel 'guilty' for your deal? It seems to me you just fancied a good old rant and did not think before making a completely unwarranted attack on local expats save for one example you refer to.

If you are on a good deal then good luck to you-I had the same previous to Thailand as did many others.

Lose that Chip!

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Bembaman ]

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Bembaman ]

[Guest]

To get back to the point of the question asked by Rumba1 and Booya here’s my story.

I’ve not found it too difficult to find a job when I’ve wanted one even though the industry I work in is slow at the moment. I work on Power Plant Construction Projects and have picked up all the work I’ve had through contacts while in LOS. You just need some patience and time to get yourself known around town, oh yes, and money to be able to live off until you get a job. Lots of tourists come for 2 weeks and dream about staying in LOS to work but very few actually make an effort to do anything about it.

Salaries are good in LOS too, better than I can get back home where there’s no work anyway. I’ve met various Engineers here, Mechanical, Electrical, Civil, Public Health, Instrumentation and DCS and Architects too and networking definitely helps. Get your face seen around town (and I don’t mean by being roaring drunk every night) and let them know you’re serious about work and you stand a better chance of getting a ‘phone call asking if you’re interested. I found my first job in Tony’s in Soi Cowboy 3 weeks after arriving and I hadn’t even thought about work, I just happened to be hanging out in a bar that a lot of expat Farangs frequented and got talking, I’ve also found work sitting on the beach in Jomtien. Degrees and Chartered / Licensed status aren’t always a prerequisite either if you have the right experience in the workplace as I’ve worked with many expats of supervisory level in piping and welding also.

Be ready to start any job immediately, don’t expect to be paid top dollar right off and be prepared to take the 1 month to 3 month jobs that can come up. It’s cost effective for companies to take someone ‘on spec’ for a short term job than to recruit. Remember also that there’s work to be had in neighbouring countries so don’t be too stuck on LOS, it’s better to get your foot in the door than it slammed in your face. I’m just starting a new job in Vietnam for a company I’ve known a long time, they have a lot of work coming up at the end of the year in LOS (provided the government gives the go ahead) so 8 to 10 months in the wilderness is a long term investment. Besides that the money is very good.

 

I don’t want give the impression that finding a job is overly simple and that jobs will fall out of the sky but I guess that I’ve had pretty good luck over the years and haven’t had to ‘chase down’ jobs. People now know me, or know people that I know, and I get calls or referrals for jobs, I also get calls from companies looking for people that I can recommend. These are also just my experiences of the Construction Industry but judging by a Poll I made a while ago the majority of people on this board are not in this game so there should be some other success stories out there somewhere, especially as a recent Poll shows that about 50% of board members actually live in LOS.

Like I say I guess that I’ve been lucky and if you’re new to LOS don’t expect too much too soon. I’ve been here 8 years and have also seen many Farangs have to leave ‘cos they can’t find work.

But it won’t ever happen sitting there dreaming about it, you’ve got to get up and give it a go.

Good luck if you decide to take the leap.

[Guest]

You found out it THAIHOME!

I'm posting from my office...

But today I've a good reason: I'm waiting since 8,30 a "ingeneer" to come to fix the A/C device!

I may leave in 30 minutes if no one come by that time and start dealing with the problem where to find sanuk around Midday...

It can be a good day for a couple of girls in a place called Eden?

Regards

Swissman

[gummigut]

Thaihome, I'm very curious about your statement, "There is no doubt he acted in his best interest (since his new company got the contract), but without any ethics."

I would like to know exactly what ethics did this guy violate. As I understand it, your company wanted him to move and he already had roots here in Thailand. The company forced him to choose and he decided to stay in Thailand and leave your company. He got hired by a competitor and used his relationships to get a contract (the nature of his job). If this is the case, I would say that the company was disloyal to the employee. Usually if this happens, the employee does not forfeit his job although he may forfeit future advancement.

Me myself? I have evolved from being really loyal to my employer to being really loyal to the people I work with. I have been around and been burned by very large companies. This includes Citibank and Credit Suisse First Boston. In fact, I had Allen Wheat lie to my face as well as the head of the trading floor of my investment banking department. When CSFB was closing my department, I was told I could still price my deal. It could have gone to Chemical Securities (dating myself here) and possibly get something, but I stayed with CSFB as they did do a lot for me (although I was getting burned). 2-DAYS BEFORE PRICING I was told CSFB couldn't handle the deal. This is extremely bad business and very unethical. Not only lying to me, but to the bank's client. I was left to inform the client, neither the head of the trading floor nor anyone else wanted to sit with me on the call. Rat bastards.

In any case, Thaihome, I am really interested in hearing about your view of this situation as business ethics and management is a hobby of mine.

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