drogon Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Solution might be like some Izraelis suggested: Cut the fundind from Hamas backers -> put a real international force between both sides with a clear mandate (not like the UN dummies interposition force in 1967). Help Palestinians develop. Otherwise it will not work, found an interview of an Izraeli on BBC today: He too has had enough but he also said: "we can't kill them all and they can't kill us all so in the end only a peaceful solution can be found"... after how many deads is the question... I am pretty sure that if Palestinians have, one day, the same level of development as the Izraelis that they can live all live in peace. By the way, no matter if you are pro Izrael or pro Palestine, may I remind you all that we, in the west, are responsible for all this? If the Spanish, Hitler, Stalin and other western nations through history hadn't exterminated, hunted the Jews then they wouldn't have needed a country in such massive numbers... May the new year help things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALHOLK Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 1967: Is not an Izraeli occupation (except in the sinai against Egypt) -> Izrael just reacted to attacks from Jordania and retook some territories lost in 1948.... You conveniently avoid mentioning that Israel attacked Egypt first. Perhaps not totally unprovoked but the attacked first. You also forgot to mention the occupation of the Syrian Golan heights. A mere oversight on your behalf I'm sure. :smirk: You stated that they retook some land. How could they retake land that wasn't theirs to begin with. Israel was never given the entire Brittish mandate Palestine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogon Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 ALHOLK: What is a "state of war"...who attacked first? Do we consider the shells the Egyptian army fired at Israel during the night (ok not thousands like the Isralis told to western medias) or "operation focus" against Egyptian airports? Same with Jordania: Do we consider the continuous shelling by Jordanian artillery being an act of war? The land? Jews claim it was theirs for longer than the Arabs... No matter who is the owner of the land -> in 1948 none parties had the choice... but the Arab had the choice not to attack and start decades of war and small battles... If western nations didn't want the Jews to have their land why did they recognize Israel as a legitimate nation???? Golan heights: Of course this is occupation as much as the sinai -> but if you accept to remember the initial battle plans prepared for years by Israel were aimed at Syria and Syria only... Taking the Golan heights was meantn to stop the continuous shelling by Syrian artillery... Did Israel conquer some parts of Syria and Egypt to use them as buffer zones? Yes they did, but after all the Arab countries (united union of Arabas) "just" wanted to erase Israel and the Jews.... I suppose Jews should have accepted to be exterminated....Or maybe having your village, schools shelled every day might have decided Jews to at least occupy enough territory so that artillery can't destroy their homes? In all wars: the ones who win rip the fruits of victory... If Arabs hadn't attacked in 1948, wanted war and pushed Israel to react in 1967, attacked in 1973 then the situation could have been different. Israel fucked up many things including some possibilities to reduce bloodshed but at least they developed their country -> which neither the Palestinians nor the Arab neighbours did. (and don't come with the "but the USA funded Israel" which is true but the same could have been said for the Arabs who got funded by USSR...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustian Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 The Jihadis want to drive all Jews from what is now Israel. Period. Leftists who deny this are liars or retards or both. This is true' date=' but you dishonestly ignore what the Israeli's are doing. There's more to this than your simplistic opinions.[/quote'] I do not ignore what the Israelis are doing. Rather, I approve of 90+ % of it. If you had an honest and intelligent criticism of the Israelis then you would simply make it rather than spout off worthless bullshit. As I wrote previously.... A sign of real ignorance and stupidity is only seeing one side of an argument. You are living proof of this. Agreeing to what the Israeli's are doing by such a high margin proves how utterly myopic and ignorant you are. You are condoning the deaths of hundreds of innocent civilians. But then you are well known to be racist and nationalistic. Non-whites/non-christians/non-Americans mean little to you...we all know that. You really are quite a vile and repulsive individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ckrisg Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 For 1948...Arab states started the war and conquered some parts of Izrael. For 1967: The Arab countries were preparing to start the war to erase Izrael -> and the Palestinian regiments were a reality... No luck for the Arab countries and the Palestinians but they lost the war...(especially jordania as they should never have entered the war). Izrael and the Arab countries as well as the Palestinians were faced by a situation left by the Brits...Instead of trying to find a solution the Arab states chose to attack... Your comparison with Mexico and USA is inaccurate. Arab states as well as Palestinians received huge loads of weapons from the USSR and its allies throughout time -> 1956-1967-1973 and numerous small battles between... In these times the ones with big guns and loads of military equipment were the Arab countries -> if Hamas is fighting with AK-RPG-mortars -> this is because they lost the wars they started and the Arab states have something else to do than "erase Izrael"..... Izraeli occupation? Tell that to the damn Brits who created this situation... The only "exodus" I can admit is the one of 1948 but it went both ways, Palestinians leaving what was then Izrael borders and then later in the war Izraelis leaving territory occupied by force by Arab countries. 1967: Is not an Izraeli occupation (except in the sinai against Egypt) -> Izrael just reacted to attacks from Jordania and retook some territories lost in 1948.... Biggest mistake of the kingdom of Jordania and the Palestinians was to attack Izrael when Izrael didn't plan to attack Jordaina.... 1973: No occupation, just Izrael fighting to survive... I agree that Izrael's creation in 1948 is an occupation of "Arab lands" from a certain point of view but may I remind all readers here that Izrael was recognized by something like 150 or so countries? The Brits did not create the situation, we were just the poor bastards who were elected to sort the mess out after WW2 as the rest of Europe was sitting with their thumbs up their arses. Dozens of Bitish soliders were killed by Jews and arabs doing it. As regards to the present situation, Israel needs to take some lessons from the Brits in Northern Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Hippie Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Hmmm...something about the Ottoman empire...loss of a war before WWII and all that...then of course, a mass exodous of unwanted Jews from Europe post WWII...headed for Israel...as oppossed to tolerating them anywhere else...with the hope of the Arabs dealing with them...a recipe for disaster...but it didn't quite work out did it? Maybe time for the Europeans to go home, and the USA to rethink it's policy on this shit...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USVirgin Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I'd like to think that. I'd like to think Obama can bring a fresh approach and some new ideas, but I don't think it's possible for any American politician to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Dude. The "Palestinians" are committing vicious, racist, blood-thirsty murder because they hate the Jews and Israel. None of them are starving. You only claim they are starving because you don't want to face up to their shortcomings. Sorry but I don't respond to 'Dude'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USVirgin Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 And you shouldn't have to. Even living in "dude central", I don't respond well to it from a stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckwoww Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Yes. People who use it are rude and ignorant. As to the Palestinians hating Jews and Israel. Can't disagree with that. I'm sure most of them wish Israel had never happened. Are they actually starving in Gaza? Probably not yet but they can't be blamed for resisting the blockade. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5338014.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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